Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods • Hacker News Board

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#81

Post by nicoburns » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:21 PM UTC

raylad wrote: post #24

I'm not sure about chicken cells but my experience with growing human cells (WI-38 fibroblasts)[1] is that they want to grow in a monolayer. The way we grew them normally was in those roller bottles [2]: you have some tissue culture medium in the bottle (containing fetal calf serum, which is still required to grow mammalian cells AFAIK, another reason most of these companies can't do what they say) and other componen…

> The cells want to grow in a one-cell-thick monolayer all over the inside of the bottle. What they won't do is to grow a double layer. This is because they have "contact inhibition" which is a major mechanism for preventing tumor-like growth: when cells are touching each other, they stop dividing.

How does that work inside the human body, where presumably they do form 3D structures?

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#82

Post by pcthrowaway » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:31 PM UTC

andrewinardeer wrote: post #54

pcthrowaway wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quorn has for the most part been making meat substitutes out of vat-grown mycelium and eggs I love mushrooms, and am mostly vegan, but the skeptic in me suspects it's not as economically viable (with their current processes) to make meat-like products out of just their "mycoprotein" or they'd be doing more of it. I realize they have released a few vegan products, but I've never seen them in stores and can't see why t…

Mostly vegan? So you're not vegan.

Hence, "mostly vegan". I was vegan for 6-7 years, now I'm begrudgingly consuming oysters and clams. Both have fewer neurons than a mosquito and no brain or central nervous system. I'm not certain they can't feel pain, but I was having a hard time sustaining my health within my budget on a fully plant-based diet, so until I can get back to a place where I feel like I'm getting complete nutrition on plant-based foods and supplements, I've been forcing myself to choke down some bivalves on occasion.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#83

Post by jononomo » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #73

zvmaz wrote: post #66

I really wish them to succeed. Imagine centuries from now, a future civilisation where human-inflicted cruelty towards billions and billions of sentient beings is ended...

Not to mention the benefits for us: all the space dedicated to pasture could be dedicated to wildlife or outdoor recreation, and all the high-density facilities fouling air and waterways could be closed. If it works for fish, we could stop scouring the ocean like an Old Testament-style god angry with our creation. Even the food snobs would be happy, since responsible wildlife management practices would yield a certai…

Space that is currently dedicated to pasture is already currently dedicated to wildlife. In fact, grazing cattle on land serves to rejuvenate the land, since the cattle's hoove's serve as little plows, and the cows walk around and poop and pee, which fertilizes the land and allows for insects and bugs to thrive, which helps the bird population, and the little rodents.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#84

Post by jononomo » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:34 PM UTC

jahnu wrote: post #64

sokoloff wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long-time meat eater, I find Impossible to be a passable substitute for ground beef in a lot of dishes. If they can get the end user price under control, they could displace a whole lot of beef consumption. At the current price point, it’s not nearly worth it on a taste or economic value comparison with 80% ground beef.

If only we subsidised this as much as we subside meat production. Or perhaps subsidise nothing. Either way it’s not yet a level playing field.

Why do you think we subsidize meat production? Isn't it sugar and soybeans that we subsidize?

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#85

Post by jononomo » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

anonylizard wrote: post #45

pjot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does meat actually taste good though? When has anyone ordered unseasoned chicken? Salt and spices taste good.

Indians have figured out how to make vegetables taste very good (It helps India is perfect for growing spices) But Indians still eat meat, the majority in fact.

India has one of the lowest life expectancies in the world and and exploding rate of diabetes.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#86

Post by paulcole » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:47 PM UTC

jononomo wrote: post #84

jahnu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we subsidised this as much as we subside meat production. Or perhaps subsidise nothing. Either way it’s not yet a level playing field.

Why do you think we subsidize meat production? Isn't it sugar and soybeans that we subsidize?

70% of soybeans grown in the US go to feed livestock.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#87

Post by avalys » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

zvmaz wrote: post #66

I really wish them to succeed. Imagine centuries from now, a future civilisation where human-inflicted cruelty towards billions and billions of sentient beings is ended...

Do you think animals in the wild are being cruel to each other when they eat them?

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#88

Post by harvey9 » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:55 PM UTC

jononomo wrote: post #83

dkarl wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the benefits for us: all the space dedicated to pasture could be dedicated to wildlife or outdoor recreation, and all the high-density facilities fouling air and waterways could be closed. If it works for fish, we could stop scouring the ocean like an Old Testament-style god angry with our creation. Even the food snobs would be happy, since responsible wildlife management practices would yield a certai…

Space that is currently dedicated to pasture is already currently dedicated to wildlife. In fact, grazing cattle on land serves to rejuvenate the land, since the cattle's hoove's serve as little plows, and the cows walk around and poop and pee, which fertilizes the land and allows for insects and bugs to thrive, which helps the bird population, and the little rodents.

In some cases that land was recently deforested. It was previously dedicated to wildlife but now it's dedicated to agriculture which happens to benefit some different wildlife.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#89

Post by brightlancer » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 10:56 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

jareklupinski wrote: post #3

> Another former employee confirmed that staffers at the company would make jokes comparing Upside to Theranos. that's taking it a little far... their goal is providing an ethical food source, not revolutionizing human diagnoses can't wait for meat-less meat tech to get through its paces and take the time to mature. humans took hundreds of years to figure out how to herd cattle; what's another few years to make it in…

Yeah, I agree. Honestly, as long as the product isn't contaminated, the consumer doesn't care if it made in roller bottles or futuristic machines. At worse they are misleading investors, but are not endangering the health of consumers. Theranos on the other hand, actually hurt not just investors but the end consumer by promising them blood tests that did not actually work.

> At worse they are misleading investors, but are not endangering the health of consumers.

> Theranos on the other hand, actually hurt not just investors but the end consumer by promising them blood tests that did not actually work.

Elizabeth Holmes was _acquitted_ of defrauding patients; her convictions were only for defrauding investors.

This looks a lot like Theranos.

Re: Insiders reveal problems at Upside Foods

#90

Post by finite_depth » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 11:01 PM UTC

raylad wrote: post #24

I'm not sure about chicken cells but my experience with growing human cells (WI-38 fibroblasts)[1] is that they want to grow in a monolayer. The way we grew them normally was in those roller bottles [2]: you have some tissue culture medium in the bottle (containing fetal calf serum, which is still required to grow mammalian cells AFAIK, another reason most of these companies can't do what they say) and other componen…

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