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Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

paulfuhr.medium.com

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Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#61

Post by BossingAround »

expertentipp wrote: post #44
BossingAround wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the quote says. It'd be more like you waking up, eating the same thing every day, and expecting different outcomes from the eating, e.g. the level of satiety or the effect on your energy until lunch.

> and expecting different outcomes from the eating, e.g. the level of satiety or the effect on your energy until lunch. But eating the same can absolutely result with different levels of satiety and energy. Ever been sick, poisoned, or depressed?

It can, but again, that's not what the quote says. Suppose you eat a candy bar and get hungry 30m later. Suppose you do it again. If you're surprised that you got hungry, that's what the quote defines as insanity.

If you eat the same thing, you expect the same results. Whether you get the same results or not is a result of the complex chemical processes in your body. That's not what the quote argues about either.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#62

Post by valdiorn »

stuaxo wrote: post #43

Don't think I ever used indeed.com, just got something recently, the market for the last few months in the UK has been the worst I'd seen since 2008

FYI, this is a dirty secret, but the correct way to use Indeed is not to apply for the job per se; it's to get in touch with the people doing the hiring.

Basically, submit your "application" for a job, get a call back from the recruiter, who will then promptly say "yeah forget about that job, I've got 20 other interesting jobs that might fit you better".

... I'm pretty sure in most cases the initial job doesn't even exist.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#63

Post by valdiorn »

hackernewds wrote: post #49
pcurve wrote: post #5

I've never gotten any contacts through Indeed, unless we're talking about small staffing firms fishing lowballing and fishing for my resumes.

what would they gain by getting your resume?

They sell them to recruiters

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#64

Post by Aeolun »

valdiorn wrote: post #45

How come I keep reading these types of posts, hearing these stories, yet I've never experienced anything remotely close to this? Job hunting has always been the opposite for me; being inundated by sharks trying to aggressively recruit me. --- For reference; here's a quick summary of my job history: Mid 20s, I was working for a retail bank in Iceland (where I'm from), doing ASP.NET and C#. With about 4 years of experi…

Recruiters are a big part of it, but honestly the hard part is getting in. Once you’ve done it once people assume you can do it again.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#65

Post by expertentipp »

moltar wrote: post #41

IMO job sites were dead the day the launched. I posted a job ad on jobs.gc.ca in early 2000s which is a government site, with junk UX and even then I got about 200 applications. Then about five years ago I have talked to my last employer. And they used StackOverflow jobs and got 350 applications just the first day for a super niche position (Perl related). No doubt most applications are unrelated spam. Now, how do yo…

> about 200 applications.

> jobs and got 350 applications

Been on both sides of recruiting meat grinder and initially had empathy for this "we have hundreds of applicants and most are irrelevant". Once you have experienced human specialist on the other end, have some bloody respect. If you insist on finding inconsistencies, gaps, and incompetence in the CV, all you'll get will be hardcore fraudsters.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#66

Post by notahacker »

angarg12 wrote: post #32
dboreham wrote: post #10

Never used indeed.com once. But...people should know that these sites, and recruiters, are basically hiring theater. Almost all jobs (perhaps excepting FAANG meat grinder) are filled through personal connections.

> Almost all jobs are filled through personal connections. I see this repeated online, but is there any data to actually back this claim up? In my experience only a small number of jobs get filled through referrals etc.

And the sort of jobs that have a referred candidate they want to hire aren't putting up a free listing on Indeed to get 60 people send often quite good and sometimes massively overqualified CVs at the click of a button, they're putting their job ads where nobody looks and demanding they answer questions or write a cover letter explaining the appeal of $genericcompany...

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#67

Post by paulddraper »

yowlingcat wrote: post #9

While my sympathy goes out to this person, I think this entire long, rambling, post could be condensed to a paragraph, or even a sentence: "It was a mistake for me to use Indeed.com." If you want the job (of finding leads, and finding jobs) done right, hire a professional -- a recruiter who will charge a fee and is aligned towards you finding a job. Trying to cold-apply to every single job with a spray and pray appro…

(On the hiring side)

Every year or so I cave and enlist a third-party recruiter.

And every year or so I am reminded why I don't normally do that.

The average quality of candidate recommendations is abysmal.

So I return to LinkedIn + personal networks.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#68

Post by _8j50 »

adeon wrote: post #35

The author says they've been applying to thousands of jobs. This is the resume the author is linking in the article: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v2sv6ev393z9fkk62v1hw/Paul-Fu... I wonder, if this person's main method of applying has been online forms where you click the "upload resume", he puts this resume in and then everything fails from the start because the ATS is unable to read it. It looks like the text in t…

2000 applications is quite rare. A posting is "hot" on indeed above the 50+ applicant mark from what I have seen.

If you have under 150 resumes there is no reason why a human can't skip+prioritize a few times and read in detail the top 50 or so.

A liberal 4 minutes per resume is 15/hr,120/8h. You can't spend or have someone spend one day reading resumés? In my earlier example of 50 resumes, that's less than half a day, a morning reading resumes to decide who you will follow up over a call in the afternoon.

Corporate laziness is such an epidemic. Honestly, why shouldn't ML replace this part of your job then? Let ML do the interview and hiring too. This middle ground where lazy keyword oriented algorithms and heavily biased humans (goof luck if your last name is washington!) is the worst of both worlds for everyone but the managers and HR people cruising their way lazily to retirement.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#69

Post by _8j50 »

38 wrote: post #51
adeon wrote: post #35

The author says they've been applying to thousands of jobs. This is the resume the author is linking in the article: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v2sv6ev393z9fkk62v1hw/Paul-Fu... I wonder, if this person's main method of applying has been online forms where you click the "upload resume", he puts this resume in and then everything fails from the start because the ATS is unable to read it. It looks like the text in t…

100% agree. this thing is WAY too stylish. just put the information so that a computer can read it in. the annoyance factor is probably enough to reject him in some cases.

Oh come on. OCR is a thing. I mean this is HN, are you normalizing acceptance of crappy software?

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#70

Post by giantg2 »

adeon wrote: post #35

The author says they've been applying to thousands of jobs. This is the resume the author is linking in the article: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/v2sv6ev393z9fkk62v1hw/Paul-Fu... I wonder, if this person's main method of applying has been online forms where you click the "upload resume", he puts this resume in and then everything fails from the start because the ATS is unable to read it. It looks like the text in t…

Any good resume submission system should be capable of OCR.

But what is this guy? Sounds like he's a designer, a communications specialist, team leader, and project manager. Just all over the place. I'm not sure what I'd hire them for.

Edit: why disagree?

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