The Sound Proof Booths of Silence • Hacker News Board

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#121

Post by bri3d » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:13 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #35

Wow they went as far as multiple layers of glass with argon pumped between them!

This is a common consumer product, "gas fill" multi-pane windows. Argon is used in this application because it's not very thermally conductive (it's also used to fill dry suits for the same reason). I found a pretty good "sciencey layman" explanation of "why Argon" for dry suits here, which matches the reasoning for windows: https://www.decompression.org/maiken/Why_Argon.htm .

I'm not sure how much this carries through to sound transmission and I couldn't find a lot of good literature about it. I'd have loved to see if they did any quantitive testing. It makes sense that Argon would reduce sound transmission some, but I would expect that the properties of the glass sheet itself and the interface between the panes and the frame would be more of an issue than the void between the panes.

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#122

Post by mrob » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:13 PM UTC

jwie wrote: post #119

flangola7 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how is argon better than nitrogen and oxygen?

Argon is more dense and inert.

But wouldn't density make things worse? Helium can be used for noise attenuation like this because it's light, so you get worse acoustic impedance matching between the panels and the gas. Argon is denser than air.

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#123

Post by eastbound » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:13 PM UTC

I don’t understand their setup:

- Standard stage/audienxe inclination is 4%, so you’d think they’d set it up at 4% or above… Nope, they incline the windows towards the ground! To wit, they had to transform the ceiling into glass panels, which shows they did have the problem of audience seeing from atop, which adds weight which they later say was one of their major problem. Talk about solving a problem by adding another problem.

- Their entire setup has big white beams everywhere, there’s no angle where the audience can see clearly. Why not having seams?

- My house has larger glass panels than that, and they are soundproof for the highway.

Surely it was possible to ship bigger glass panels, simpler design, oriented towards the top so that the roof can be plain.

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#124

Post by fennecfoxy » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #100

flangola7 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a vacuum between be better?

I'm also wonder what it is about argon gas that helps prevent sound transmission.

Argon gas does not conduct heat as well as air, so it's an excellent insulator. Which is interesting because the density of argon is greater than air, it does not block or insulate against sound other than the general deadening effect you'd get from multiple layers (energy loss in kinetic transfer from gas to glass to gas to glass to gas again).

Vacuum, He or H would've been better imo

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#125

Post by cinntaile » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

flangola7 wrote: post #103

h2odragon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but then you have the danger of implosion and shards of glass flying everywhere. That's a different kinda spectator sport.

Then how is argon better than nitrogen and oxygen?

It's inert, it's abundant and it's the gas of choice in windows so it's probably simply the cheapest choice.

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#126

Post by abdullahkhalids » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

Synaesthesia wrote: post #100

flangola7 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a vacuum between be better?

I'm also wonder what it is about argon gas that helps prevent sound transmission.

This [1] explains Sound Transmission Class (STC) ratings.

> An STC label delineates how partitions and walls effectively block sound and reduce noise. Ratings are determined by broadcasting a specific auditory tone near the material, and measuring dB on both sides. The higher the STC value, the better its insulation.

From the table STC=25 means "Normal speech easily understood" and STC=50 means "Shouting not heard"

This [2] table has one datapoint comparison of "airspace" vs argon filled windows. Both have an STC of 35. So maybe it doesn't help.

[1] https://www.dillmeierglass.com/news/stc-ratings-of-glass

[2] https://www.general-glass.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Aco...

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#127

Post by Gabriel_Martin » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

flangola7 wrote: post #78

TheDong wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The International was heavily advertised on Steam products. Which is the biggest gaming store. The biggest gaming store is almost certainly the Android Google Play Store's gaming section. It also wouldn't surprise me if the nintendo eShop is larger than the steam store, but at the very least I'm very confident in Google Play and iOS app stores being larger than steam for games. I think the majority of gamers have n…

No self respecting gamer calls mobile apps true games. No one who gets excited about video game development wants to work on candy crush v400

Wouldn't be gaming without a healthy dose of gatekeeping ;)

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#128

Post by jlokier » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

xxs wrote: post #38

ufo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

translation: gank = ambush, farming = collecting resources without engaging against the enemy team

I'd have considered 'gank' a fairly known/used term.

I hadn't encountered 'gank' before these comments.

But I had to look up MOBA too :-)

And I used to write multiplayer battle games for a living! And my favourite recent game was a MOBA without me knowing that was a term! Which goes to show, times change, words change, and it's easy to live outside gamer subculture, even while playing.

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#129

Post by bspammer » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

seanthemon wrote: post #88

ricardobeat wrote: post #80

I wonder if they have looked into air curtains. Commercial installations are at a point where you have this silent, completely invisible sheet of fast-moving air that provides some degree of noise isolation as well - maybe four walls of these + a floating ceiling is enough when coupled with the noise-cancelling headphones.

I think leave the audience participation in, let the chaos rain supreme!

That would encourage a much more boring style of gameplay.

If you can’t launch a surprise attack because the audience will give it away, the best strategy would be to slowly and incrementally build up a gold and experience advantage.

Re: The Sound Proof Booths of Silence

#130

Post by mrob » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #126

Synaesthesia wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also wonder what it is about argon gas that helps prevent sound transmission.

This [1] explains Sound Transmission Class (STC) ratings. > An STC label delineates how partitions and walls effectively block sound and reduce noise. Ratings are determined by broadcasting a specific auditory tone near the material, and measuring dB on both sides. The higher the STC value, the better its insulation. From the table STC=25 means "Normal speech easily understood" and STC=50 means "Shouting not heard" T…

I wonder if somebody vaguely remembered the effects of helium fill, which actually does reduce sound transmission, and vaguely remembered that argon-filled windows are a commercial product, and conflated the two because they're both noble gases.