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Always a starter, never a finisher.

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Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#61

Post by gnok »

vectorpush wrote: post #35

As is probably common for most HNers, technically feasible ideas pop into my head daily. My mind leisurely constructs state and class diagrams while I'm taking a shower, by the time I dry off, my gameified crowdsourcing quant-bot seems like the most amazing idea ever. But what about my MMO and a dozen other half formed projects each with their own litter of bastard experimental branches? I was able to end this cycle…

I found this "little" technique is immensely powerful. I've found that talking to people about everything I'm currently working on (as opposed to what I've completed) deflates my excitement a little bit about what I'm working on. After a few rounds of this, I no longer want to finish what I've started!

Additionally, if I'm able to get that burst of endorphins from people just by telling them what I've started, then I no longer have a strong enough reason to build up a list of things I've finished.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#62

Post by kappaknight »

Just a thought... if all you are bringing to the party are the idea and design skills, maybe you are over estimating your contribution to these projects. It's always important to finish stuff as a smaller piece of a large pie is better than 100% of nothing. Perhaps this is the time to really evaluate if giving away more than you're comfortable with will help you achieve your dreams.

If your projects are really worth something, then it really shouldn't be difficult for you to "sell" the idea to potential co-founders on an equity, or part equity, part financial basis. If you cannot even sell it to developers or business people, then the idea is probably not worth pursuing and you should stop immediately, not weeks or months later.

On a side note, if you are spending 4 to 8 months on just design, you are probably doing it wrong. You really need to meet some smart people, work with them, and learn about each others' working habits. Developers won't blindly follow someone who can only design, and bring zero business sense into a venture. You either need to up your skills, get some more funding, find people who can fill all the holes that you can't do, or come up with better ideas.

Most importantly, you do need to learn from your mistakes, or learn how not to repeat the things that have failed you in the past. If you can't get past these relatively simple hurdles and make the same mistake over and over and over again, then you really should just get a job where you are assigned to do only one thing instead - and maybe learn to be happy with that.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#63

Post by nchlswu »

trotsky wrote: post #42
nchlswu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think you could provide some links or references? When I read your comment, I immediately thing of overdiagnosing condition these days. I only ask because I Think a lot of people in my generation (I guess that's Gen Y?) jump to the "ADHD" or genuinely think they have something wrong with them, when they are completely normal.

I assume you are looking for a citation for the 9 in 10: http://mbldownloads.com/1108PP_Weisler.pdf I made a mistake in that it says 9 in 10 go untreated not undiagnosed, though certainly the majority of those untreated are also undiagnosed. Personally, I'd question why you're willing to challenge a psychiatric disorder like that when you'd never be willing to challenge someone that said "wow, sounds like you might h…

Thank you for clarifying the statistic.

I'm not challenging the disorder itself. I'm challenging a culture that's happy to jump to clinical diagnoses. There are a wide variety of traits people may possess that can easily fall into a variety of clinical diagnoses but are completely normal. Your original comment was very well balanced, but the 9 in 10 undiagnosed statistic struck me as a wild statistic that had no basis.

I understand the confusion between symptoms and moral character, but I'd prefer a more conservative stance on diagnoses when it comes to a condition with boundaries that aren't black and white.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#64

Post by jarjoura »

eat wrote: post #60
peteforde wrote: post #15

My father is an engineer, and he always taught me that there's no such thing as a good job half completed. The problem with his perspective is that it is uni-dimensional, and with good reason: if you half-build a bridge, people are going to be sad. He's an engineer and he's got to finish the bridge. However, my father didn't decide that a bridge was required, nor did he choose the ideal location for the bridge based…

I'm sorry, but you're kidding yourself if you think there's a lot of value in being an "idea man", or if you think that there aren't people who have both great ideas and the ability to see them through to completion.

To be fair, in my experience there are always the engineers who build the first 80% of something, but then a separate set of engineers who build the last 20%. Of course the original 80% remain part of the team, but they usually take on different supporting roles for managing it.

Starter & Finisher are just different ways of saying that you need engineers who can build the foundations and get the project in a good prototype/working state. Yet, you will need engineers with a different skill set who are meticulous, product driven, detail oriented (however you want to phrase it) to carry it to the finish line.

I'd say both the original 80% team, and the remaining 20% team do about the same amount of work.

Now, just to "finish" my point, I'd say the 80% team definitely finishes their portion. They still have to get it in a state that is demoable and 100% functional.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#65

Post by AznHisoka »

tedmiston wrote: post #43
vectorpush wrote: post #35

As is probably common for most HNers, technically feasible ideas pop into my head daily. My mind leisurely constructs state and class diagrams while I'm taking a shower, by the time I dry off, my gameified crowdsourcing quant-bot seems like the most amazing idea ever. But what about my MMO and a dozen other half formed projects each with their own litter of bastard experimental branches? I was able to end this cycle…

Complete isolation worries me that the idea may not get validated in the first place, and you may waste all that time as a result.

Isolate yourself from your friends, family, and people who know you. But not your potential customers.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#66

Post by nostrademons »

cletus wrote: post #46
peteforde wrote: post #15

My father is an engineer, and he always taught me that there's no such thing as a good job half completed. The problem with his perspective is that it is uni-dimensional, and with good reason: if you half-build a bridge, people are going to be sad. He's an engineer and he's got to finish the bridge. However, my father didn't decide that a bridge was required, nor did he choose the ideal location for the bridge based…

> What I learned when I came of age was that I am a Starter. The more accurate way to put this is "I am not a Finisher". The argument here is that starting and finishing are two equally valuable skills that are somehow equivalent. A "Starter" is a fairweather friend. It's easy to start things. Most people like starting things. Note this is different from networking and so forth, which is really a separate skill altog…

That's not entirely true. I get called on all the time, within my department at Google, to start things. Usually I'm explicitly forbidden from finishing them (even when I want to), either because they're "good enough" unfinished or because they can be handed off to other people who are not good at starting things.

The ability to look at a vaguely specified problem and say "Okay, here's how we're going to attack it, and here's what we need to build to have something that works" is a very valuable skillset, and not everyone has it.

Now, remember that "finished" is not the same as "launched". Usually, my responsibilities continue up to the point where we can get a product into the hands of users and train the people who'll be maintaining it after me. But there's a fairly large role for maintenance programmers, people who are responsible for little tweaks even though the system is mostly working as desired, and if you're a Starter, there's no reason for you to do that work yourself.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#67

Post by tsunamifury »

vectorpush wrote: post #35

As is probably common for most HNers, technically feasible ideas pop into my head daily. My mind leisurely constructs state and class diagrams while I'm taking a shower, by the time I dry off, my gameified crowdsourcing quant-bot seems like the most amazing idea ever. But what about my MMO and a dozen other half formed projects each with their own litter of bastard experimental branches? I was able to end this cycle…

I've found that that deflation comes from trying to live up to the expectations you've shared with others, rather than letting your project grow organically in isolation.

I am a person who suffers from extreme shame for not being a finisher. When I grew up my dad used drill over and over "you need to finish things" and instead I just got worse and worse at starting things.

I'd actually like to find projects now that need finishing so I don't have to be the starter and I can focus on taking projects across the line.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#68

Post by thepumpkin1979 »

bradt wrote: post #52

You need a partner or an advisor. Someone else who you feel you can't give up on. At least that's what has worked for me.

Agree 100%. As a solo player I usually abandon ideas before publishing them, I tend to lost the initial excitement of the idea and got tired before even launching the MVP. Having a partner(non-technical for my case) in my current project really helps me to focus and push for the MVP(yes, I'm on early stage and I get easily exhausted by the amount of work a CTO has to do when you are bootstrapping).

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#69

Post by Schwolop »

johnfn wrote: post #39
peteforde wrote: post #15

My father is an engineer, and he always taught me that there's no such thing as a good job half completed. The problem with his perspective is that it is uni-dimensional, and with good reason: if you half-build a bridge, people are going to be sad. He's an engineer and he's got to finish the bridge. However, my father didn't decide that a bridge was required, nor did he choose the ideal location for the bridge based…

> Chances are, if you got bored it wasn't going to turn out well anyhow. Listen to what your subconscious is trying to tell you. I agree with most of this post, but I disagree with this sentence. It's very, very easy to trick yourself into believing that a great idea that you're working on is not actually interesting. The problem is that you've been working with the idea so much that you no longer are seeing the thin…

Absolutely agree with this advice. It's how I fixed my last unfinished project - launching something completely broken and having people tell you they liked what they saw but could you please fix that one little thing, is a great way to get motivated to fix that thing.

Re: Always a starter, never a finisher.

#70

Post by mydnite »

nostrademons wrote: post #66
cletus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I learned when I came of age was that I am a Starter. The more accurate way to put this is "I am not a Finisher". The argument here is that starting and finishing are two equally valuable skills that are somehow equivalent. A "Starter" is a fairweather friend. It's easy to start things. Most people like starting things. Note this is different from networking and so forth, which is really a separate skill altog…

That's not entirely true. I get called on all the time, within my department at Google, to start things. Usually I'm explicitly forbidden from finishing them (even when I want to), either because they're "good enough" unfinished or because they can be handed off to other people who are not good at starting things. The ability to look at a vaguely specified problem and say "Okay, here's how we're going to attack it, a…

I think that your job sounds like a prototyper, which to say that your mandate is to develop to a level where others can rebuild it with a point of reference. Hence you're a starter and a finisher.

I have had a similar position.

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