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How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

bbc.com

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Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#51

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

quonn wrote: post #4
drug-freedom wrote: post #2

Fentanyl needs to be made legal and sold at grocery stores. In 2-for-1 packs, fentanly+narcan, at affordable prices. Even better, subsidized prices for poor people which can't afford it. That would solve the fentanyl problem, which is solely due to it being illegal and impure. More generally, all drugs need to be decriminalized and sold at affordable prices and pharma-grade quality.

Not exactly. But generally making less harmful drugs legal would help - generally the more prohibition the stronger the drugs become.

Making all drugs legal to use makes sense to me. Criminalizing users only makes things worse. But make it illegal to sell, transport, possess in large quantities etc.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#52

Post by heavyset_go »

0xCAP wrote: post #10

Non US person here, so feel free to call me out on BS. IMHO people who do fentanyl already have pretty serious mental and/or existential issues going on, like who tf would play russian roulette like that? Sounds more like a societal problem than a mere drug distribution regulation problem to me.

It's now in pressed pills that look identical to prescription pills. Someone goes to take a 5mg hydrocodone and they end up overdosing on fentanyl. All of the safer drugs that existed in the past are now either cut with fentanyl or are just fentanyl, even things like cocaine, ketamine, ecstasy, etc.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#53

Post by hotpotamus »

15457345234 wrote: post #41
vuln wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brown heroin doesn’t exist anymore. It’s all fent, they’re even cutting coke with fent which makes absolutely no sense to me. It started with oxys until the gov cracked down then everyone went to brown heroin until fent arrived. Report of Fentanyl in coke circa 2018. https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-07/BUL-039-18.p... https://www.npr.org/2021/07/05/1013203805/party-drugs-are-be...

> makes absolutely no sense It makes a lot of sense if you assume they're trying to kill everyone

I assume drug dealers like recurring revenue as much as a SaaS company does and it's hard to get recurring revenue from a dead person.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#54

Post by Mordisquitos »

0xCAP wrote: post #10

Non US person here, so feel free to call me out on BS. IMHO people who do fentanyl already have pretty serious mental and/or existential issues going on, like who tf would play russian roulette like that? Sounds more like a societal problem than a mere drug distribution regulation problem to me.

Sometimes (from what I've read, I'm also non-US) many people who end up on fentanyl were not even going through any mental or existential issues, at least not overtly, but rather were prescribed opiates such as oxycodone after being legitimately diagnosed with more-or-less severe and prolonged pain. When I say they were "legitimately" diagnosed, I mean that the patient didn't fake their ailment nor went to the doctor with the intent of getting opiates—at least not initially. Whether opiates were a reasonable approach to deal with the patient's pain is a whole'nother issue.

Over time, as the prescribed opiate painkiller loses effectiveness (as well as its pleasurable side-effects), patients may request a longer or a stronger prescription. Their doctor may or may not oblige. The patient may switch doctors to another who is more accommodating. Then the new prescription loses potency, and the cycle repeats. At some point the patient is not even taking the opiate primarily for their pain, whether they are aware of it or not, but rather for how it makes them feel. Eventually the patient cannot get a stronger prescription, or even prolong the one they had already, for whatever reason—be it financial, insurance, or doctor's refusal. That's when getting a tiny dose of fentanyl will "help". And now they're on fentanyl.

Obviously this does not happen in a vacuum. There are many societal, cultural and healthcare issues that make this scenario much more likely in the USA than in other developed countries: a combination of the healthcare system, workplace expectations, and the culture of pulling oneself up from ones own bootstraps.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#55

Post by amanaplanacanal »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #51
quonn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly. But generally making less harmful drugs legal would help - generally the more prohibition the stronger the drugs become.

Making all drugs legal to use makes sense to me. Criminalizing users only makes things worse. But make it illegal to sell, transport, possess in large quantities etc.

How are drug users going to know what they are buying if they are illegal to sell? Dealers are putting fentanyl in cocaine nowadays.

It wouldn’t surprise me if a large number of fentanyl overdoses were by people who had no idea they were taking fentanyl at all.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#56

Post by amanaplanacanal »

minerva23 wrote: post #14

On a micro level, I live in the US and I don't know anyone who takes fentanyl. "Every corner" is likely journalistic hyperbole.

I bet you know people who take illegal drugs. And those drugs could easily have fentanyl in them, unknowing.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#57

Post by phtrivier »

vuln wrote: post #23
beezlewax wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So all those oxy prescriptions weren't a good idea then?

I don’t think you’ll find anyone to argue that they were.

Unfortunately, my understanding is that some companies found a _lot_ of people to argue exactly that - if anything, to create plenty of value for the shareholder.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#58

Post by gus_massa »

vuln wrote: post #17
minerva23 wrote: post #14

On a micro level, I live in the US and I don't know anyone who takes fentanyl. "Every corner" is likely journalistic hyperbole.

Brown heroin doesn’t exist anymore. It’s all fent, they’re even cutting coke with fent which makes absolutely no sense to me. It started with oxys until the gov cracked down then everyone went to brown heroin until fent arrived. Report of Fentanyl in coke circa 2018. https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-07/BUL-039-18.p... https://www.npr.org/2021/07/05/1013203805/party-drugs-are-be...

Last year here in Argentina we had a cocaine lot cut with carfentanil. IIRC the big drug dealers detected that something was wrong and decided to throw it away. But they had an internal miscommunication (or steal) and the drug was sell anyway. The result was 24 death and like 100 hospitalizations (and probably more unreported cases). Even the Security Minister of our biggest province said on TV something like:

paraphrasing> If you bought cocaine yesterday, please discard it. It may be the bad one.

One of the reports during the problem: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/03/argentina-tain...

One report one year later: https://batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/one-year-without-answe...

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#59

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

thelastparadise wrote: post #42
flybrand wrote: post #40

My wife has pre-cancerous moles and every few years some need to be removed. This year it was done - and they told her to take Advil for 6 inch long incisions on her back. In the past? Pain pills like Oxicotin - which they are now afraid to prescribe. So she’s dealt w 2 weeks of agony as she heals. American medicine is cruel.

Doctors aren't always right. You know you can push back?

The unfortunate reality is that if you push back, you may get "drug seeking behavior" added to your records, making it even less likely to receive sufficient pain relief in the future, even for unrelated situations.

Re: How the fentanyl crisis' fourth wave has hit every corner of the US

#60

Post by withinboredom »

ackbar03 wrote: post #44
withinboredom wrote: post #24

I had to get a colonoscopy and be awake for the whole thing. They gave me fentanyl (my first and only time ever experiencing this drug) for the procedure. I have very fond memories of the entire experience, which is extremely disconcerting considering what was going on at the time. This drug probably shouldn’t exist imho.

Could it be the colonoscopy rather than the drug

Uh no. I think I would be rather fascinated to see a red light moving around my belly if I were sober, but not to the point that I actually was fascinated. Seeing my intestines all twisted up on the monitor should have freaked me out, but I thought it was very pretty looking and asked for a picture to take home and put on my wall. My emotions don’t match up to the facts and my reactions were borderline cringe-worthy. The fact that I can remember it in detail is part of what makes it even more disconcerting.

So, no, if I were sober, I don’t think I would have fond memories of the experience.

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