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MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

nature.com

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Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#101

Post by zillolo »

Alupis wrote: post #57
MauranKilom wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In scientific writing, such as studies like this - just the facts please. But those are just very precise facts? Clarifying that they refer to "female sex assigned at birth" is strictly less ambiguous than "female".

Nobody stood around and just made up a sex for a newborn soviet job-assignment style, making the language "assigned at birth" inaccurate from a scientific standpoint. From a scientific standpoint, Female and Male are clearly defined. I will not engage any further in a political debate about this subject here. My point was political ideology statements should not be in scientific writing because they are political, th…

Male and female are clearly defined (not really, but let's assume for the arguments sake). Intersex people exist, and they are impossible to identify without them telling you about it. So these people are really "assigned" a gender at birth. They might not be a huge amount of the population, but they exist. So why not use "assigned at birth"? It includes them and doesn't hurt anyone at all. I'd ask you to reconsider, whether the authors made a political statement, or whether you made this a political statement by yourself. Because I read it and not a single political thought crossed my mind...

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#102

Post by ethanbond »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #84
ethanbond wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But dude, that's the whole point of these studies! It's really hard to know what a given drug does! We should absolutely factor in people's subjective experiences and recreational experiments in terms of deciding whether it's worth investigating something more thoroughly, but once real, high-quality studies are done (especially RCTs), people's recreational experiences hold very little water when they are in conflict…

Yes I also misunderstood the usage. They make a therapy session once a month where the patient gets high before the session. On the other hand, they dont factor in the body mass of the patient and give everyone the same dosage. That doesnt seem high quality to me. And 120-180mg isn't just a little. Thats at the upper end of what you would take when you go to a party, just for reference. Give this to someone with 60kg…

The dosages are discovered and defined by the Phase I trial, also in a very systematic way that is meant to break free of folk wisdom about correct dosages.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#103

Post by randomNumber7 »

InSteady wrote: post #96
randomNumber7 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't find information about dosage and regularity in the paper. If it really is just a few sessions with enough time between then im ok with that. But there should be enough scientific evidence that anything more is very dangerous.

>But there should be enough scientific evidence that anything more is very dangerous. By all means, go find it and report back!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA#Long-term

Wasnt that hard right. All just anecdotal evidence of course /S

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#104

Post by hollerith »

tysam_and wrote: post #46
DrKavorkian wrote: post #35

Nature is the mecca of all science. MDMA will be approved by FDA, that's inevitable. Likely would require special licensing. Clinics will pop up all over the country and it won't be long before “off label” prescriptions will appear. The incidence of PTSD will suddenly rise and before we have a chance to quell the opioid epidemic another epidemic will replace it on the front pages of the news. Meanwhile the smart ones…

If you're talking about pairing an SSRI with MDMA, then perhaps you would perhaps be well-served by adding some reticence to the confident assertions made. That pairing would be like a Clorox + Bleach pairing of the psychotropic world. There is significant interest in the drug, and the culture largely is focused on appropriate administration measures. This is not a half-baked solution, MAPS has worked on this for dec…

>That pairing would be like a Clorox + Bleach pairing of the psychotropic world.

Clorox is bleach. I think you mean ammonia + bleach.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#105

Post by janstice »

InSteady wrote: post #97
staticautomatic wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use another group taking an amphetamine in addition to one taking an inert placebo?

As effective as that might be in terms of a proper active control group, it does not seem terribly ethical to give amphetamines to patients with PTSD without any medically sound reason to do so.

That and you’d have to correct for undiagnosed ADHD which suddenly improved with a course of amphetamines.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#106

Post by heavyset_go »

d1lanka wrote: post #67
rexpop wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people have had bad trips on MDMA. I don't know where this reputation comes from, but it's common to have extremely intense and unpleasant emotions, sensations, or thoughts. Anxiety, agitation, muscle tension, sweating, and/or chills are all documented effects of the drug. For a dozens of anecdotes, just search "MDMA bad trip".

Meh. What's your source? Yes, those things can of course happen, but they're very rare and in the minority. It is absolutely NOT common to have a "bad" experience with a drug that is chemically designed to make you feel incredible via serotonin depletion.

MDMA was discovered as an intermediate in the synthesis of a completely unrelated substance. No one designed it.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#107

Post by MauranKilom »

Alupis wrote: post #57
MauranKilom wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In scientific writing, such as studies like this - just the facts please. But those are just very precise facts? Clarifying that they refer to "female sex assigned at birth" is strictly less ambiguous than "female".

Nobody stood around and just made up a sex for a newborn soviet job-assignment style, making the language "assigned at birth" inaccurate from a scientific standpoint. From a scientific standpoint, Female and Male are clearly defined. I will not engage any further in a political debate about this subject here. My point was political ideology statements should not be in scientific writing because they are political, th…

> making the language "assigned at birth" inaccurate from a scientific standpoint

That's a strawman argument about semantics ("assign" in English does not always mean "soviet-style"), which I'm not going to bother engaging with.

> Scientific writing should not be a product of it's date and political climate.

By virtue of using language, it virtually always is. For example, the common/acceptable way of referring to ethnicities changed over time. It's virtually impossible in anything involving humans to have language (and therefore scientific language) not evolve over time.

> From a scientific standpoint, Female and Male are clearly defined.

And how do you distinguish the "scientific" female and male from the "colloquial" female and male, without leaving it ambiguous according to the "political background" of the reader? Or rather, what if, in a purely hypothetical future English, "female" and "male" refer unambiguously to the gender people identify as? It seems like you would like scientific writing to conform specifically (and only) to what you consider acceptable language _right now_, and are not actually particularly interested in accessibility to future readers.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#108

Post by rendx »

heavyset_go wrote: post #106
d1lanka wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. What's your source? Yes, those things can of course happen, but they're very rare and in the minority. It is absolutely NOT common to have a "bad" experience with a drug that is chemically designed to make you feel incredible via serotonin depletion.

MDMA was discovered as an intermediate in the synthesis of a completely unrelated substance. No one designed it.

MDA is a naturally occurring precursor to MDMA and was traditionally used in Root Beer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassafras_albidum

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#109

Post by tysam_and »

hollerith wrote: post #104
tysam_and wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about pairing an SSRI with MDMA, then perhaps you would perhaps be well-served by adding some reticence to the confident assertions made. That pairing would be like a Clorox + Bleach pairing of the psychotropic world. There is significant interest in the drug, and the culture largely is focused on appropriate administration measures. This is not a half-baked solution, MAPS has worked on this for dec…

>That pairing would be like a Clorox + Bleach pairing of the psychotropic world. Clorox is bleach. I think you mean ammonia + bleach.

Apologies, thank you.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#110

Post by heavyset_go »

rendx wrote: post #108
heavyset_go wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MDMA was discovered as an intermediate in the synthesis of a completely unrelated substance. No one designed it.

MDA is a naturally occurring precursor to MDMA and was traditionally used in Root Beer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassafras_albidum

MDA is not naturally occurring
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