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Java 21 makes me like Java again

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Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#211

Post by [deleted] »

insanitybit wrote: post #79
northern-lights wrote: post #31

The biggest feature in Java 21 is the release of Virtual Threads: https://openjdk.org/jeps/444 For some reason, this is missing from the article. If there was any feature that would sway existing Golang developers to switch to Java, it would be this. It would perhaps also convince the haters of the reactive-style concurrency patterns.

`Executor.newVirtualThreadPerTaskExecutor` versus `go` really gets to the heart of why I think that Go developers aren't going to be switching. edit: Sorry, it's actually: try (var executor = Executors.newVirtualThreadPerTaskExecutor()) { executor.submit(...) ) instead of `go`

[deleted]

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#212

Post by fuzztester »

rerdavies wrote: post #191
matsemann wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely see inheritance used in practice in java code bases. Except where I would use a union type or sealed class in other languages anyways. I don't feel what youre describing is a real issue.

HtmlElement. AST. Socket. Stream. Window. Closable. Runnable.

Your Point?

Long:

Please make your Point Understandable.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#213

Post by [deleted] »

jayd16 wrote: post #85
northern-lights wrote: post #31

The biggest feature in Java 21 is the release of Virtual Threads: https://openjdk.org/jeps/444 For some reason, this is missing from the article. If there was any feature that would sway existing Golang developers to switch to Java, it would be this. It would perhaps also convince the haters of the reactive-style concurrency patterns.

I don't think Golang devs are waiting to switch to Java if only making a lot of threads was easier. Honestly, its way too early. Virtual Threads will need a a "killer app" (in this case a killer framework) to pull in devs.

[deleted]

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#214

Post by bcrosby95 »

jayd16 wrote: post #85
northern-lights wrote: post #31

The biggest feature in Java 21 is the release of Virtual Threads: https://openjdk.org/jeps/444 For some reason, this is missing from the article. If there was any feature that would sway existing Golang developers to switch to Java, it would be this. It would perhaps also convince the haters of the reactive-style concurrency patterns.

I don't think Golang devs are waiting to switch to Java if only making a lot of threads was easier. Honestly, its way too early. Virtual Threads will need a a "killer app" (in this case a killer framework) to pull in devs.

The great thing about virtual threads is they're basically a drop in replacement for threads.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#215

Post by baka367 »

bb88 wrote: post #99
tail_exchange wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be really lucky then. In my previous job, inheritance and abstract classes were everywhere. Coupled with dependency injection frameworks that "worked like magic", it was really hard to follow the code inside that big, monolithic app. It made me never want to work with Java ever again.

I've never been a big fan of dependency injection. It solves a problem with unit testing in Java, sure, but the reality is that Java could have done some nifty things to help alleviate that as well.

If that’s the only thing it’s used for in the project, then you are most likely good with Autowired (in Sping) or something similar.

Any complicated DI solution must have a reason for it being there and I’ve seen too many projects complicating themselves on buzzwords like DI or MSOA without really needing either that much

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#216

Post by jryle70 »

bedobi wrote: post #200
ivan_gammel wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone writing code on Java since v1.0 and making tech strategy decisions on the C-level, I consider myself sane and experienced enough to say that Java is something that will do the job well and can be the primary choice for startups and new projects. Kotlin as a platform is not mature enough to deserve the same qualification.

I'm sure you have done great work in Java, as have many of us, and for many of those years, Java really was the best tool for many jobs. But that was then, now is now. I'm not saying Java doesn't work, even for greenfield projects today. It works fine. But me and many others also think it's not enough for something to merely work, especially not when there are other much better and more modern tools. (which Java is d…

> especially not when there are other much better and more modern tools. (which Java is demonstrably playing catch-up with)

Which modern tools do you have in mind here?

Java does indeed playing catch up with new features. That's inevitable for a language came out 30 years ago. OTOTH many other languages are still behind Java in terms of the runtime environment and the ecosystem. You should pick what works for you, not to go with the trend.

> The best talent don't even want to consider working with Java if they can help it.

I think you seriously overestimate how talent those devs are if language is the deciding factor of what they choose to work on.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#217

Post by pm90 »

rcme wrote: post #204
arein3 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exception handling and generics are missing key pieces from go. But adding them will make go look like java. I just wish java would add null safety in the type system in a first citizen way. For enterprise use java has no competitors. You have c# which is microsoft trying to estabilish nash equilibrium fu*ing the developers. I am a bit worried about ever increasing complexity and a steep learning curve, but seems lik…

What is “enterprise” use? Plenty of enterprises use Go.

Not really. Software first enterprises do. But most enterprises that have a non-software focus generally prefer languages that have been around for a while and are known by lots of people.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#218

Post by totallywrong »

impulser_ wrote: post #187
northern-lights wrote: post #31

The biggest feature in Java 21 is the release of Virtual Threads: https://openjdk.org/jeps/444 For some reason, this is missing from the article. If there was any feature that would sway existing Golang developers to switch to Java, it would be this. It would perhaps also convince the haters of the reactive-style concurrency patterns.

I don't think any existing Go developer is going back to Java. I worked with Java for 10 years and switched to Go and I will never go back. This is mostly because applications and libraries are so hard to reason about and understand due to inheritance, packaging, OOP, build tools ect compared to Go. Go is simple. It's easy to understand, read, and maintain. The packaging is like how you would package files on your co…

> Go is simple. It's easy to understand, read, and maintain.

Matter of taste I guess, to me Go code looks ugly, it's too verbose with all that error handling every other line which hurts readability. Also the docs are often so cryptic and unhelpful, one needs to rely on examples elsewhere. I do use it though, when I need something fast in a single binary.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#219

Post by imetatroll »

northern-lights wrote: post #31

The biggest feature in Java 21 is the release of Virtual Threads: https://openjdk.org/jeps/444 For some reason, this is missing from the article. If there was any feature that would sway existing Golang developers to switch to Java, it would be this. It would perhaps also convince the haters of the reactive-style concurrency patterns.

No thank you. There is limited time in the day and go fills my needs.

Go, Rust, Ruby. These three cover all cases.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#220

Post by imetatroll »

DandyDev wrote: post #172
gabereiser wrote: post #67

[flagged]

Do you feel good about yourself, talking down on people that made a perfectly valid choice by developing software in Java? Let's look at the alternatives you mentioned: Rust and Golang. Java compared to Golang is a much more expressive language. Java compared to Rust is a much easier language because you have a garbage collector for the majority of the cases you don't need the manual memory controls that Rust offers…

Manual memory controls? What are those? Rust does not have "manual memory controls". You write the code so that the borrow checker does not complain. End of story.
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