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Java 21 makes me like Java again

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Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#91

Post by gabereiser »

mongol wrote: post #81
gabereiser wrote: post #67

[flagged]

Exactly what is enterprise? I think Java has a role to play in most professional settings, even if the company is quite small. It is not a sports car but I see it more as a truck or a cargo ship. Vehicles that underpin the world economy, but that only few think of as fun or exciting. Not pretty or nice to look at, but reliable work horses.

It is for sure the wagoneer when it comes to getting things done in the enterprise, if it was 2005.

It’s not a sports car, it’s not a dune buggy, it’s not even pretty in its wood paneling and drab paint scheme. But it got your family to Wisconsin for the holidays.

In 2023, we have better options.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#93

Post by piva00 »

ttyyzz wrote: post #78
mdaniel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you're using vim like someone from the 70s, otherwise any sane IDE handles those things for you But, yes, namespaces are still mapped to paths, it's not like they rewrote the JVM to use blockchain or something

Yeah I really like my IDE doing stuff in the background without me knowing shit about it.

Yeah, I do like my IDE doing the tedious work for me. It's also really nice to unzip any JAR I need to troubleshoot and know exactly where to navigate to find exactly the file with the code I need.

I like Golang a lot but the standardisation and verbosity in Java-land has some benefits after you get used to it enough to learn to ignore the boilerplate, it's pretty good to have some kind of consistency enforced by the VM when working in large codebases.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#94

Post by kaba0 »

leapis wrote: post #46
hmottestad wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that what happened at your company?

Yup. We've clearly benefitted- G1 and generational ZGC have large advantages over CMS- but it's a lot of experimentation and trial-and-error to get there, whereas other deprecations/removals are usually easier to resolve.

Isn't the default config correct for pretty much all workloads, unless you have very special requirements? Like, at most one should just change the target max pause time in case of G1, depending on whether they prefer better throughput at the price of worse latency, or the reverse.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#98

Post by [deleted] »

insanitybit wrote: post #79
northern-lights wrote: post #31

The biggest feature in Java 21 is the release of Virtual Threads: https://openjdk.org/jeps/444 For some reason, this is missing from the article. If there was any feature that would sway existing Golang developers to switch to Java, it would be this. It would perhaps also convince the haters of the reactive-style concurrency patterns.

`Executor.newVirtualThreadPerTaskExecutor` versus `go` really gets to the heart of why I think that Go developers aren't going to be switching. edit: Sorry, it's actually: try (var executor = Executors.newVirtualThreadPerTaskExecutor()) { executor.submit(...) ) instead of `go`

[deleted]

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#99

Post by bb88 »

tail_exchange wrote: post #36
matsemann wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely see inheritance used in practice in java code bases. Except where I would use a union type or sealed class in other languages anyways. I don't feel what youre describing is a real issue.

You must be really lucky then. In my previous job, inheritance and abstract classes were everywhere. Coupled with dependency injection frameworks that "worked like magic", it was really hard to follow the code inside that big, monolithic app. It made me never want to work with Java ever again.

I've never been a big fan of dependency injection. It solves a problem with unit testing in Java, sure, but the reality is that Java could have done some nifty things to help alleviate that as well.

Re: Java 21 makes me like Java again

#100

Post by kaashif »

leapis wrote: post #34
kaashif wrote: post #2

Nice article as someone familiar with sum types but not sum types in Java. I don't know if sum types alone are enough to get me to like Java, pervasive nullability is still around and even rears its head multiple times in this article.

Nullable is a huge issue in Java, but annotation-based nullability frameworks are both effective and pervasive in the ecosystem (and almost mandatory, IMO). I'm really excited about https://jspecify.dev/ , which is an effort by Google, Meta, Microsoft, etc to standardize annotations, starting with @Nullable.

This can never be as effective as changing the default reference type to be not nullable, which would break backwards compatibility, so you can never really relax.

I know Kotlin is basically supposed to be that, it has a lot of other stuff though, and I haven't used it much.

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