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Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

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Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll help you with your research: Ex-Austrian minister who danced with Putin at wedding lands Russian oil job https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/former-austria...

Notably, this happened before any of these events, and to help you with Austrian history, the entire "family" has been since dismissed. (Kneissl is now a blogger in Russia, far from Austria or its politics.)

Russian ties in Austria have been strong for a couple of years and they’re simply coming to light (mentioning this in context of energy trade)

Austrian spymaster warns of Russian ties as far right claws back support

https://on.ft.com/45UTDUp

As well in context of security apparatus cooperation

Journalist Who Exposed Russia Spies Flees Vienna on Safety Fears

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-02/journalis...

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#272

And this is why scraping is under technical and legal attack. To maintain their panopticon, where they see all, while you get only a pinhole view of, in this case, the economy.

Scraping is huge business for people who don’t have your best interests in mind, too. There are many businesses built on the idea of gathering as much of people’s data as they can find in the public internet and selling it to anyone willing to pay. Contrary to what many people thing, Facebook, Google, and other companies do not sell your data! They are ad companies that use their private data to target ads, but they…

And cameras are used by stalkers as well. But when a prolific photographer, growing rich off their trade, tries to control what others are allowed to photograph, I won't assume they're doing it out of concern for my well-being.

I don't want Google or Facebook to have my data either, yet they've done their best to gather everyone's with various trackers, not just data posted voluntarily to their platforms. They don't have to sell it - they are the threat too.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#273
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also important to note: Germany is a car country: most ways to work, gym, etc in the average German city are done by car. Makes it easy to drive the extra mile to the cheapest supermarket. Austria is much better for using public transport or the bike. In this case you won't make the extra way to stop at the cheapest grocery. And in the areas in Austria where people use cars population density is so low that not a lot…

Not true. Most people in germany have a supermarket in walking distance to their home and the bime infrastructe is often critizised but actually good compared to most cou tries

even if supermarkets are within walking distance, if Germans are getting in their cars regularly for other reasons, that could change their supermarket shopping behavior in favor of more distant store with cheaper prices.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#274
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I was pondering about an idea for an app that will crowdsource prices of items and their development in the time. You know, to be aware when there is some product discount, but during the discount period, the original price is higher that usual which means customer is being mislead. This practice, although prevalent, is not legal in EU [1] The app would let you track prices for products in individual stores by scanni…

I don’t know about rest of EU, but here in Slovakia, every receipt has a QR code. You can send that number to API for receipt verification - and it returns all line items and prices. If we could get people to scan the receipts (expense tracking for example) we would have massive amount of crowdsourced data. Wish I had time to pursue this idea!

This is not the case in most EU.

Also note that it'll also make a even bigger tracking mechanism than having a centralised API in the first place.

For example the QR-code bearing receipts from Germany have a signed proof of commiting the transaction to HSM, but not the details.

Online-capable cash registers in Poland submit only hourly statistics centrally.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#275
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

More generally, the EU has problems with market efficiency in general. The law allowing mail-order businesses to refuse to sell across “state lines” means markets are very atomized and dominated by one or two players who, spoiler, don’t really compete aggressively on pricing. The idea of Newegg refusing to sell to me because I don’t live in California is insane from an American perspective but that’s what the EU has…

Austria in particular is really bad here. If you send commercially packages into Austria you need to register with the recycling system, license packaging and go to a notary to declare a proxy for packaging. There is so much crazy protectionism going on that the single market is effectively no longer free.

This is similar to other countries unfortunately. And don't ask about food product labelling.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#276

Governments should mandate published prices for all goods sold in supermarkets, it would be good for competition and almost trivial for the companies to publish CSV files with barcode, price, start and end dates. Of course doing do would be disastrous for the supermarkets, so I can imagine they would fight and lobby politicians vigorously.

This seems like an odd thing to state with such certainty. I'm not sure I see how it would be good for competition either - having worked for a grocery store before, management was generally aware of competitor's prices, at least at a "we send someone to every other competitor every few weeks to check prices on major important stuff". We were very open internally that we had the prices of a few items pegged to always be cheaper than any price Walmart had for them.

As stated other places in the thread, most grocery stores are super low margin overall. Especially on basic food items. Things like canned goods, basic cuts of meat, eggs, milk and the like were often sold at cost or even at a loss. Things that we actually had good margins on were mostly products where we had vertical integrations or special contracts with farms or factories - we were matching our competitors' prices, but at a better margin because we'd worked out how to pay less for the raw goods.

With all that in mind, I highly doubt how "disastrous" it would be to have a public price database. Sure, you could probably shave your pennies by spreading your shopping over 4-5 different stores because they're each slightly cheaper than each other, but you'd almost assuredly spend more in time and transportation costs to do that than you'd save.

What would cause the stores to lobby against it is that many stores, especially now, change prices on things pretty often. The CSV you imagine publishing to a government site is something that, as I recall, takes something like 5 hours to generate every night due to the vast variety of products across the company, and the fact that different stores in different areas may be pricing products differently or offering different coupons, or simply not stock the product at all. There is no one price per barcode universally across the company, so the outputted pricing list ends up being gigabytes of data.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#277
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Most people in germany have a supermarket in walking distance to their home and the bime infrastructe is often critizised but actually good compared to most cou tries

even if supermarkets are within walking distance, if Germans are getting in their cars regularly for other reasons, that could change their supermarket shopping behavior in favor of more distant store with cheaper prices.

exactly. While living in Germany I had an expensive supermarket in walking distance, but I'd almost never go there because I used the car to go to work and stopped at a cheaper one on the way back. In Austria in the cities it's almost impossible to go by car to work because parking is incredibly expensive so most people use public transport or bikes

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#278
post #270
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also important to note: Germany is a car country: most ways to work, gym, etc in the average German city are done by car. Makes it easy to drive the extra mile to the cheapest supermarket. Austria is much better for using public transport or the bike. In this case you won't make the extra way to stop at the cheapest grocery. And in the areas in Austria where people use cars population density is so low that not a lot…

Not true. Most people in germany have a supermarket in walking distance to their home and the bime infrastructe is often critizised but actually good compared to most cou tries

That depends on whether you live in a big city or not

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#279

Fellow Austrian here. Nice price comparison project, but the elephant in the room is that grocery store prices in Germany are 20-40% lower for the same product. Explanation from the supermarket chains are shady at best (more stores per capita compared to Germany, they are forced to buy from more expensive Austrian distributors etc). I heard similar things from Belgium (higher prices than in France) My point is: we ne…

Austria's real problem is that it's a bad business environment with high taxes and tons of regulation. It means that there are only a few players in that space that ultimately dominate it. Small companies could not even enter that space because the regulation does not give them any space to innovate (for instance free selection of products, other opening times).

> Austria's real problem is that it's a bad business environment with high taxes and tons of regulation.

The same is said about Germany, so that can't be the reason.

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