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Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

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Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#71

Post by sanderjd »

jrjarrett wrote: post #49
Boxxed wrote: post #15

I must have had very different experiences from everyone as I can't imagine how grinding leetcode is a worthwhile activity. Do you want to do leetcode because you find it helpful or because the hive mind of the internet says you should?

You have to do leetcode if you want any hope of being able to find a different job. You have to be ready for that kind of question. I’m a software engineer with 20+ years of experience in a bunch of different industries. I know what I’m doing. I did 3 interviews with 3 different companies in the past couple months and utterly failed at the leetcode style coding interviews. The last one was to “print out the contents…

I think it has helped me to do five to ten hours of refresher on elementary data structures and algorithms in the week or so leading up to interviewing at places like Google and Stripe.

But I really hate hearing that people are sinking hours and hours into doing tons of these problems, and on an ongoing basis. What a horrible waste of human life.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#72

Post by b20000 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #69
b20000 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

engineering is about creativity and practice and not about memorizing standard solutions. leetcode does not test the skills that matter.

Leetcode is not for engineering on the job though, it's purely a test for getting hired. You wouldn't expect lawyers to take an LSAT while on the job. A lot of people, especially those who don't do Leetcode or work in a company that asks such questions, think Leetcode should somehow relate to the work and are annoyed, but it's just a test like any other.

yeah, and the test is not relevant, so it should no longer be used, and instead people should be hired on past projects and skills, perhaps on a 2 week trial.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#73

Post by b20000 »

hnfong wrote: post #64
b20000 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you just need to apply standard patterns than you are not actually inventing but just doing code monkey stuff, and you can’t really call that engineering

The flaw in your argument is that you assume people are hired to do "real engineering" instead of "code monkeying". As you implicitly admitted, "code monkeying" is a skill. Whether this skill "matters" is really the hiring company/team's business, and none of yours.

the problem is that leetcode style interviews are used by all companies now and not a % of the market.

what you fail to see just like most other engineers is that it is being used to discriminate and as a tool for keeping compensation under control.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#74

Post by satvikpendem »

b20000 wrote: post #72
satvikpendem wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leetcode is not for engineering on the job though, it's purely a test for getting hired. You wouldn't expect lawyers to take an LSAT while on the job. A lot of people, especially those who don't do Leetcode or work in a company that asks such questions, think Leetcode should somehow relate to the work and are annoyed, but it's just a test like any other.

yeah, and the test is not relevant, so it should no longer be used, and instead people should be hired on past projects and skills, perhaps on a 2 week trial.

Sure, you can want that but if you want to win, you have to play the game that's there, not what you'd personally want. Of course, you can reject that game for a different one but then you lose out on its benefits, such as massively higher pay.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#75

Post by hnfong »

b20000 wrote: post #73
hnfong wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flaw in your argument is that you assume people are hired to do "real engineering" instead of "code monkeying". As you implicitly admitted, "code monkeying" is a skill. Whether this skill "matters" is really the hiring company/team's business, and none of yours.

the problem is that leetcode style interviews are used by all companies now and not a % of the market. what you fail to see just like most other engineers is that it is being used to discriminate and as a tool for keeping compensation under control.

What I'm seeing is that the gatekeeping mechanism artificially restricts qualified candidates from passing the interview tests and the reduced supply of employable candidates causes the compensation of companies practicing leetcode interviews to rise instead (and it makes you bitter because you think you're better than them).

I'm also seeing that given hiring leetcode-trained code monkeys seem to be working fine for the FAANG companies that practice it, perhaps they don't really need that many "real engineers" that can come up with creative solutions to problems. If that's the case they're just hiring the kind of people they actually need the most, and the accusation of "discrimination" doesn't really hold.

Anyway, what I originally objected to was your allegation that reading books and learning standard solutions don't allow one to acquire skills and your attitude that applying standard solutions is something beneath you. I totally understand what you're objecting to (I find leetcode style questions sub-optimal, and when I'm on the interviewer side I don't do it, and that's a competitive advantage for me when everyone else is competing sub-optimally), but unfortunately I am not quite sympathetic to somebody who thinks to familiarizing oneself with standard solutions is beneath them.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#77

Post by sanderjd »

SomewhatLikely wrote: post #57
elicksaur wrote: post #34

I often wonder what problems could be solved in the world if so much free programming time wasn’t wasted on leetcode.

Even among just software devs I'm guessing far more time is wasted on passive consumption like TikTok, YouTube, etc.

Brains need rest. Doing leetcode style exercises is not trading off against passive entertainment, it's trading off against the limited amount of active mental energy.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#78

Post by flashgordon »

So I would not put side projects and leetcode grinding in the same vain. It's like saying how do you find time for your favorite sport and having to do exercises that you have to whether you like it or not because your health depends on it. Yes you could enjoy leet code. In either case if you enjoy it and you are doing it for an intrinsic desire you will find time. By the way doing so may not make you more employable or even a better coder and it should never be an expectation by employers.

Now you kinda answered part of your question. Looks like your day job is very rewarding that when you are tired you are "good" tired and you need a recharge so you can go back to that goodness the next day. For me my spike in side projects came when my job sucked. The more it sucked (regardless of how tired it made me) the more I'd come home fuelled. Again ymmv!

Same with boring exercises, I mean leetcode. Frankly I have not seen a good reason for lc unless to crack that faang job (I'd just pay for premium and go through company Xs problems a month before the interviews). Sad but true.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#79

Post by elicksaur »

SomewhatLikely wrote: post #57
elicksaur wrote: post #34

I often wonder what problems could be solved in the world if so much free programming time wasn’t wasted on leetcode.

Even among just software devs I'm guessing far more time is wasted on passive consumption like TikTok, YouTube, etc.

I never hear people talk like “I know I should grind more YouTube videos.” The leetcode phenomenon seems to be a particularly insidious time suck because it has the illusion of non-leisure value. The same level of energy and effort could be applied to open source or side projects that could benefit a great number of people.

Re: Ask HN: How do you make time for side projects and Leetcode grinding

#80

Post by gwnywg »

I'm in the same boat, have 2 kids and want to enjoy trade the same way I used to many years ago :) but not at expense of my kids. This feels possible only in a universe where I run my own product and am capable of making a living (not the universe I live in atm)

I'm probably in worse situation than you since I have a problem you seem not having- motivation (I mean, you must be really motivated to put 60hrs every week, I hardly find motivation to do 40 and I'm guilty of feeling I have built everything that was to be built for that co I work for and now all my time is a waste..)

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