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Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

timesofisrael.com

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Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#3
16 million people in a country smaller than New Jersey that is arid, has limited water, etc seems like a lot. Population growth rates often slow down when young people are crammed into apartments even if they are very religious. Curious if the models predict this

Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#4
I see they are taking birth rates as a basis. That assumes that all the children they have will follow their parents' religion. I don't think that can be taken for granted.

When I look at my own country it seems that people are less and less following their parents' religious choices. Most Catholics in Holland of my generation are only so in name. That say they are to please the parents, but they don't do anything church related.

The same happens to more strict religions like Calvinism. My generation generally doesn't care about it, only their parents do. I guess even at a young age kids find information these days and start making their own choices. Having a religion that forbids loads of fun stuff isn't really attractive when you see other people living their life without all those rules.

My parents tried to make me Catholic but I already rejected it when I was very young. I was baptized but I refused to do any more like communion or Sunday school. It just made so little sense to me (and science made so much sense instead)

I wonder if the same will happen there.

Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#5
post #4

I see they are taking birth rates as a basis. That assumes that all the children they have will follow their parents' religion. I don't think that can be taken for granted. When I look at my own country it seems that people are less and less following their parents' religious choices. Most Catholics in Holland of my generation are only so in name. That say they are to please the parents, but they don't do anything ch…

[deleted]

Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#6
What confuses me most about Israel’s rising political turmoil is that the faction driving for violence against Muslims (the ultra orthodox) are also exempt from the military.

Say they get everything they want and they become an apartheid, theocracy…how do they expect to survive? Who will defend them from their neighbors and from their Muslim citizens?

How would the country with arguably the greatest need for a strong military in the world expect to continue existing if their most powerful and populous group refuses to fight?

We’re seeing the problem already with reservists resigning in large numbers in protest of the PMs power grab.

Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#7
post #3

16 million people in a country smaller than New Jersey that is arid, has limited water, etc seems like a lot. Population growth rates often slow down when young people are crammed into apartments even if they are very religious. Curious if the models predict this

Yeah, or if I were an expanding yet constricted population I would think “instead of contract we will expand, and find an addition” i.e. so many people will need more land.

That’s the normal human response, not “so many people we need to contract and subtract.”

Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#8
post #4

I see they are taking birth rates as a basis. That assumes that all the children they have will follow their parents' religion. I don't think that can be taken for granted. When I look at my own country it seems that people are less and less following their parents' religious choices. Most Catholics in Holland of my generation are only so in name. That say they are to please the parents, but they don't do anything ch…

Ultra-Orthodox Judaism is not like the American religious practices you mention, where faith is a matter of identity but only expressed on Sundays or whatever. Ultra-Orthodox Judaism is a total way of life, for men especially it determines your daily schedule every day of the week. The Torah study that many men engage in full-time gives them a distinct body of knowledge and perspective that makes them feel part of the same culture as fellow ultra-Orthodox, while the secular world is an alien and potentially hostile place.

That isn’t to say that attrition doesn’t happen. It does. But this group has resisted it more than other faiths.

Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#9

What confuses me most about Israel’s rising political turmoil is that the faction driving for violence against Muslims (the ultra orthodox) are also exempt from the military. Say they get everything they want and they become an apartheid, theocracy…how do they expect to survive? Who will defend them from their neighbors and from their Muslim citizens? How would the country with arguably the greatest need for a strong…

The Religious Zionist Party ("faction driving for violence against Muslims") are a separate political bloc from the ultra-Orthodox. The former typically do serve in the army.

Re: Nearly 1 in 4 Israelis will be ultra-Orthodox by 2050, study says

#10

What confuses me most about Israel’s rising political turmoil is that the faction driving for violence against Muslims (the ultra orthodox) are also exempt from the military. Say they get everything they want and they become an apartheid, theocracy…how do they expect to survive? Who will defend them from their neighbors and from their Muslim citizens? How would the country with arguably the greatest need for a strong…

Yours is a frequent misunderstanding outside Israel. Ultra-Orthodox aren’t necessarily driving for violence against Muslims, and some Ultra-Orthodox groups are anti-Zionist. If you visit a West Bank settlement, you meet a lot of plain Orthodox, and also secular Israelis who are on the hawkish end of the spectrum.

When I visited the West Bank, I was invited in by a family who immigrated from former USSR on grounds of Jewish ancestry. They were were not religious Jews, in fact they kept Orthodox Christian icons in their home since that was their vague cultural background. They were attracted to a West Bank settlement just because of cheaper housing than in Israel proper.

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