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MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

nature.com

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Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#71

Post by d1lanka »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #10

Even as someone who has used this recreational, I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment. I have seen smart people needing professional help for a very long time after using this too often. And too often is already every second weekend, because the body needs so long to restore the serotonine. But maybe they are using very little doses? I can still not believe that taking this regularily is a good idea. Ed…

> I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment.

Data disagrees with you.

I have seen tremendous improvement in quality of life of veterans with PTSD with just a few MDMA assisted therapy sessions.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#72

Post by randomNumber7 »

gchamonlive wrote: post #38
randomNumber7 wrote: post #10

Even as someone who has used this recreational, I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment. I have seen smart people needing professional help for a very long time after using this too often. And too often is already every second weekend, because the body needs so long to restore the serotonine. But maybe they are using very little doses? I can still not believe that taking this regularily is a good idea. Ed…

You cannot really compare the two use cases. It's like banning morphine because if people used that in parties they would have a heart attack.

I'm not against banning anything. Just considering the side effects you need very hard evidence to justify this.

And I couldnt find exact information about dosage and regularity in the paper...

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#73

Post by morkalork »

the_gipsy wrote: post #34
boppo1 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think MDMA is really in the business of bad trips.

Yea, it's just not gonna happen with a controlled dosage under supervision. People that over dose (as in take too much, not dying) can have a bad trip at least for an amount of time.

Sure, maybe under a controlled environment where candidate selection is a thing. I've seen some wild reactions in people who turned out to have undiagnosed bipolar disorder or border line personality disorder at the time. They all got diagnosed and treated at a later date so hooray for them. But goddamn, the serotonin dump from even a moderate amount of mdma triggered some intense episodes of mania. Hell, I bet you could use it as a means of diagnosis; it was so obvious in retrospect. Group of friends, chill environment, everyone taking about the same amount, good quality stuff and one person just losing their shit afterwards. Makes you suspect there's something not quite right with them..

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#74

Post by Alupis »

jrflowers wrote: post #70
Alupis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In scientific writing Mass is usually referenced instead of Weight, because weight changes depending where you are, even on the same planet (being a measurement of gravitational force). You are making my point even stronger... and weight being political is news to me.

> Mass is usually referenced instead of Weight You’re telling me buddy! People actually think that doctors weigh babies and write down the numbers they see on the scale when everybody really smart knows they measure infant Mass by measuring their liquid displacement and multiplying it by the density of the standardized homogenous baby slurry provided by NIST. It’s like dang John Stewart in every delivery theater I te…

You are attempting to be funny and dismantle my argument by locating holes. However, unfortunately for you, these misguided political jabs only strengthen my argument.

A birth certificate is not a scientific writing. A study of the affects of MDMA on PTSD is.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#75

Post by Alupis »

jrflowers wrote: post #66
MauranKilom wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In scientific writing, such as studies like this - just the facts please. But those are just very precise facts? Clarifying that they refer to "female sex assigned at birth" is strictly less ambiguous than "female".

Alupis is simply trying to help out Science in an objective and apolitical way by pointing out that some phrases can rile people up into hooting and hollering. Phrases like “assigned female at birth” can, to use an empirical term, “whip one up into a real doozy of a tizzy” that can only be quelled by posting. Anything that might trigger Poster’s Rage is definitionally Not Science because scientific words do not make…

The very fact that you are this "riled up" about a plainly obvious statement such as I have made here only serves to validate my position.

Take a look at your statements and tell me you are arguing from a scientific standpoint and not one from your own personal political ideology. You cannot, in good faith, make this claim.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#76

Post by jrflowers »

Alupis wrote: post #74
jrflowers wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mass is usually referenced instead of Weight You’re telling me buddy! People actually think that doctors weigh babies and write down the numbers they see on the scale when everybody really smart knows they measure infant Mass by measuring their liquid displacement and multiplying it by the density of the standardized homogenous baby slurry provided by NIST. It’s like dang John Stewart in every delivery theater I te…

You are attempting to be funny and dismantle my argument by locating holes. However, unfortunately for you, these misguided political jabs only strengthen my argument. A birth certificate is not a scientific writing. A study of the affects of MDMA on PTSD is.

> A birth certificate is not a scientific writing. A study of the affects of MDMA on PTSD is.

I’ll cheers to that! It is important that we do not include words like “assigned female at birth” in any scientific writing because

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#77

Post by randomNumber7 »

d1lanka wrote: post #71
randomNumber7 wrote: post #10

Even as someone who has used this recreational, I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment. I have seen smart people needing professional help for a very long time after using this too often. And too often is already every second weekend, because the body needs so long to restore the serotonine. But maybe they are using very little doses? I can still not believe that taking this regularily is a good idea. Ed…

> I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment. Data disagrees with you. I have seen tremendous improvement in quality of life of veterans with PTSD with just a few MDMA assisted therapy sessions.

I couldn't find information about dosage and regularity in the paper.

If it really is just a few sessions with enough time between then im ok with that.

But there should be enough scientific evidence that anything more is very dangerous.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#78

Post by Alupis »

jrflowers wrote: post #76
Alupis wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are attempting to be funny and dismantle my argument by locating holes. However, unfortunately for you, these misguided political jabs only strengthen my argument. A birth certificate is not a scientific writing. A study of the affects of MDMA on PTSD is.

> A birth certificate is not a scientific writing. A study of the affects of MDMA on PTSD is. I’ll cheers to that! It is important that we do not include words like “assigned female at birth” in any scientific writing because

Take a breath and calm down. Triggered is supposed to be a meme, not reality.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#79

Post by jrflowers »

Alupis wrote: post #78
jrflowers wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A birth certificate is not a scientific writing. A study of the affects of MDMA on PTSD is. I’ll cheers to that! It is important that we do not include words like “assigned female at birth” in any scientific writing because

Take a breath and calm down. Triggered is supposed to be a meme, not reality.

I’m sorry seeing those Woke Words in a Science just make me so hopping mad. It’s like if they use those words and people read them, then the words will make science more or less… what I’m trying to say is they’re so bad, and nothing made of Science could make me feel this way. The only way to do anything with all this discomfort I feel from the Words when I see them online is post in the comments, it’s literally the way we’ll save society writ large

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#80

Post by akhosravian »

Alupis wrote: post #33
mountainriver wrote: post #7

Overall seems positive, some interesting pieces: > The only measured exploratory covariate with a significant interaction with treatment was lifetime history of SSRI use, which was associated with improved efficacy of MDMA-AT (P = 0.02; Supplementary Table 5). Covariates significantly impacting the main effect were sex assigned at birth and baseline Beck Depression Inventory (BDI)-II score; female sex assigned at bir…

> That being said, for people with severe PTSD this is surely a godsend. This seems a bit of a premature statement. The long term usage affects of MDMA use can be very costly, and I suspect long term use of something that provides artificial "feel good" emotion will have a tremendous downside for people who are already struggling with normality. > sex assigned at birth... female sex assigned at birth As an aside - in…

The point of these studies is that MDMA can improve the efficacy of talk therapy. I don’t think anyone in this space is thinking MDMA will replace traditional anti depressants as a thing you take regularly for an indefinite period of time.

Further, I’d speculate MDMA is not obviously harder on the body than adderall or other stimulants currently legal for ADHD.

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