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MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

nature.com

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Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#31

Post by randomNumber7 »

ethanbond wrote: post #13
randomNumber7 wrote: post #10

Even as someone who has used this recreational, I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment. I have seen smart people needing professional help for a very long time after using this too often. And too often is already every second weekend, because the body needs so long to restore the serotonine. But maybe they are using very little doses? I can still not believe that taking this regularily is a good idea. Ed…

If only there were some mechanism by which we could separate people's personal vibes and anecdata from actual scientific understanding... perhaps a series of clinical trials? History will look unkindly upon people who kept these substances out of the hands of people who need them because "I knew a guy once who did too much street MDMA and went stupid." Honestly, adopting that position in the face of a well-designed P…

Its not like "I know a guy". Its like common knowledge for people who do this stuff that it seriously fucks you up if you do this too often. Its like 100% guaranteed.

I would not take this every day for a month even if you offer me a years salary.

Every medic who thinks this is a good idea should do the self test in my opinion. The same goes for giving ritalin to kids, but that is a different story...

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#32

Post by randomNumber7 »

nhod wrote: post #17
randomNumber7 wrote: post #10

Even as someone who has used this recreational, I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment. I have seen smart people needing professional help for a very long time after using this too often. And too often is already every second weekend, because the body needs so long to restore the serotonine. But maybe they are using very little doses? I can still not believe that taking this regularily is a good idea. Ed…

MDMA-AT is definitely not taking it regularly. It is done only a handful of times, with pharmaceutical-grade MDMA and no other adulterants, in controlled doses, in a controlled setting. Very different than a Tesla pill at a rave every other weekend.

Ok, not regularly already makes more sense. Still the dosage would be very interesting, and the time interval. I didn't talk about tesla pills, but mdma crystals dosed with a high precision weight according to body mass.

That a tesla pill with 0-300 mg can be harmful is obvious^^

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#33

Post by Alupis »

mountainriver wrote: post #7

Overall seems positive, some interesting pieces: > The only measured exploratory covariate with a significant interaction with treatment was lifetime history of SSRI use, which was associated with improved efficacy of MDMA-AT (P = 0.02; Supplementary Table 5). Covariates significantly impacting the main effect were sex assigned at birth and baseline Beck Depression Inventory (BDI)-II score; female sex assigned at bir…

> That being said, for people with severe PTSD this is surely a godsend.

This seems a bit of a premature statement. The long term usage affects of MDMA use can be very costly, and I suspect long term use of something that provides artificial "feel good" emotion will have a tremendous downside for people who are already struggling with normality.

> sex assigned at birth... female sex assigned at birth

As an aside - in a scientific article, this is insane language to use and really calls into question the assumptions and conclusions.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#34

Post by the_gipsy »

boppo1 wrote: post #19
speed_spread wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like what the common raver would qualify as a "bad trip".

I don't think MDMA is really in the business of bad trips.

Yea, it's just not gonna happen with a controlled dosage under supervision. People that over dose (as in take too much, not dying) can have a bad trip at least for an amount of time.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#35

Post by DrKavorkian »

Nature is the mecca of all science. MDMA will be approved by FDA, that's inevitable. Likely would require special licensing. Clinics will pop up all over the country and it won't be long before “off label” prescriptions will appear. The incidence of PTSD will suddenly rise and before we have a chance to quell the opioid epidemic another epidemic will replace it on the front pages of the news. Meanwhile the smart ones will invest in whichever pharmaceutical company will be the first to patent an SSRI/MDMA combination drug. “The only thing that we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.” Hegel

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#36

Post by ethanbond »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #31
ethanbond wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were some mechanism by which we could separate people's personal vibes and anecdata from actual scientific understanding... perhaps a series of clinical trials? History will look unkindly upon people who kept these substances out of the hands of people who need them because "I knew a guy once who did too much street MDMA and went stupid." Honestly, adopting that position in the face of a well-designed P…

Its not like "I know a guy". Its like common knowledge for people who do this stuff that it seriously fucks you up if you do this too often. Its like 100% guaranteed. I would not take this every day for a month even if you offer me a years salary. Every medic who thinks this is a good idea should do the self test in my opinion. The same goes for giving ritalin to kids, but that is a different story...

> Its like common knowledge

Why don't you just say folk wisdom? Commonly rumored? Calling something "knowledge" doesn't make it such. The entire point of science, and the reason it's so ridiculously hard, is that common knowledge is so frequently wrong.

> I would not take this every day for a month even if you offer me a years salary.

Then don't? No one is asking you to, nor is this trial nor the proposed line of treatment anything like this.

> Every medic who thinks this is a good idea should do the self test in my opinion.

I have a better proposal: how about they do a bunch of solid RCTs on it? That way we get actual information instead of noise.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#37

Post by heavyset_go »

boppo1 wrote: post #19
speed_spread wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like what the common raver would qualify as a "bad trip".

I don't think MDMA is really in the business of bad trips.

You can definitely have a bad time on it that's akin to a bad trip, especially if you're hashing out trauma with a therapist while on it.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#38

Post by gchamonlive »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #10

Even as someone who has used this recreational, I'm very sceptical about mdma for medical treatment. I have seen smart people needing professional help for a very long time after using this too often. And too often is already every second weekend, because the body needs so long to restore the serotonine. But maybe they are using very little doses? I can still not believe that taking this regularily is a good idea. Ed…

You cannot really compare the two use cases. It's like banning morphine because if people used that in parties they would have a heart attack.

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#39

Post by andrekandre »

Alupis wrote: post #33
mountainriver wrote: post #7

Overall seems positive, some interesting pieces: > The only measured exploratory covariate with a significant interaction with treatment was lifetime history of SSRI use, which was associated with improved efficacy of MDMA-AT (P = 0.02; Supplementary Table 5). Covariates significantly impacting the main effect were sex assigned at birth and baseline Beck Depression Inventory (BDI)-II score; female sex assigned at bir…

> That being said, for people with severe PTSD this is surely a godsend. This seems a bit of a premature statement. The long term usage affects of MDMA use can be very costly, and I suspect long term use of something that provides artificial "feel good" emotion will have a tremendous downside for people who are already struggling with normality. > sex assigned at birth... female sex assigned at birth As an aside - in…

  >> sex assigned at birth... female sex assigned at birth

  > As an aside - in a scientific article, this is insane language to use and really calls into question the assumptions and conclusions.
i'm not really familiar with scientific writing, but why would that be insane language to use? what would be better?

Re: MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD: A randomized, placebo-controlled phase 3 trial

#40

Post by rexpop »

boppo1 wrote: post #19
speed_spread wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like what the common raver would qualify as a "bad trip".

I don't think MDMA is really in the business of bad trips.

Many people have had bad trips on MDMA. I don't know where this reputation comes from, but it's common to have extremely intense and unpleasant emotions, sensations, or thoughts. Anxiety, agitation, muscle tension, sweating, and/or chills are all documented effects of the drug.

For a dozens of anecdotes, just search "MDMA bad trip".

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