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TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

theguardian.com

341–350 of 373 posts

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#341

We're going to have state I.D to use any popular website alongside remote attestation and you guys are cheering us along the path there with cases like this

At this point, maybe we should reduce anonymization? We've had this idea since the 90s that an anonymous internet with signal amplification is a net good, but that's been turning out to be less and less true. If you want to self publish anonymously, you are not entitled to use of one of the big 5 platforms. Maybe this causes fragmentation of large platforms, that'd also be a net good imo.

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Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#342
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The country issuing the fine. Previously for Meta it was Ireland and Amazon it was Luxembourg.

In this case Ireland will collect but this is on behalf of the entire EU. Where does it go after?

It generally stays in the country issuing the fine, and it's up to that country what to do with it:

>“While the GDPR determines which infringements can lead to the imposition of a fine and which DPA [data protection administration] in the EU/EEA has the power to impose a fine for infringements, the GDPR does not determine what happens to administrative fines [my emphasis]. This is determined by national law and differs between member states. For all aspects of enforcement not governed by the GDPR, national law applies.”

https://cybernews.com/editorial/who-keeps-gdpr-fine-money/#:....

As for where specifically in Ireland, it seems to just go to the general government budget.

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiktock global revenue was $9.4 billion last year. EU is like, what, a fifth of that at most?

2.6 billion in 2022, up from 1 billion in 2021, and surely more for 2023.

Okay, so drop in the bucket where the bucket holds ten drops

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#344

We're going to have state I.D to use any popular website alongside remote attestation and you guys are cheering us along the path there with cases like this

At this point, maybe we should reduce anonymization? We've had this idea since the 90s that an anonymous internet with signal amplification is a net good, but that's been turning out to be less and less true. If you want to self publish anonymously, you are not entitled to use of one of the big 5 platforms. Maybe this causes fragmentation of large platforms, that'd also be a net good imo.

I'm sorry, what?

Wouldn't whatever "signal amplification" downsides happen just as much with decentralized services

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't really conclude that de-anonymization is good just by asserting that the status quo is bad. One has to make the positive case for de-anonymization on privately owned platforms. What are the trade-offs? Society certainly didn't anticipate a lot of the drawbacks of anonymous presence.

Why do we automatically assume that anonymization is good? Where are the anonymous town squares?

I dunno, I was pretty careful not to assume that in my comment.

The town square metaphor is really not a great one for the internet. You don't run nearly as high a risk of getting doxxed or swatted for speaking your mind in a physical public place.

And if the unspoken suggestion is that anonymous doxxing would be impossible or too costly/risky in a hypothetical de-anonymized world, I'd call BS. Even if it worked, that would require some kind of "panopticon internet". Sounds bad...

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's behavior during the Greek debt crisis was pretty evil. Imagine if a US state were in serious debt, and the US federal response were to slash Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare benefits to the state. The EU view was that Greece should get out of debt by massively slashing government spending, including on virtually all social services, which sent the country spiralling into a Great-Depression-level econom…

I agree that European lenders went overboard, but I can't blame them for requiring strict measures after the corrupt government of one member state threatened the economic stability of the entire EU bloc. Years of government mismanagement and fraudulent reports had put Greece in a state where nobody reputable would lend them money, in extreme debt, and without an economy to recover by itself any time soon. Greece cou…

> Greece could've decided not to take up the bailouts, of course. All austerity packages were passed by the democratically elected Greek parliament.

When the elected Greek government put the Nth austerity package to a popular referendum, the EU began cutting Greece off from the international banking system (one effect was that people were unable to withdraw more than a tiny amount from ATMs), in order to put pressure on the population to vote "yes." The population voted "no" anyways, because Greeks were massively against austerity by that point. The EU then put enormous pressure on the Greek government to ignore the result of the referendum, threatening to intentionally destroy the Greek economy. The Greek government caved and agreed to the new austerity package. This was extremely undemocratic: a popular referendum was simply ignored, and the government - which had been elected specifically to reject austerity - basically had a gun to its head.

> The EU would've liked Greece to magically go out of debt, but it's not like they were just going to hand the Greek government hundreds of billions of gifts and a pat on the back with a quick "try not to go bankrupt again, OK?".

If this were an American state, the citizens of the state would have received massive Federal transfers, in the form on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and unemployment payments. Instead, the equivalent of all of those things were massively slashed in Greece. This is the equivalent of throwing debtors in prison. In punishing them, you destroy their ability to pay back their creditors. It's an insane thing to do, even from the point of view of the creditors.

What the newly elected Greek government (not the old, corrupt government) was proposing was for the creditors to take a hit, and for stricter tax enforcement (particularly on the wealthy). It wasn't just saying, "Give us money and we'll do nothing." It was saying, "Don't force us into an artificial economic depression, and give us breathing space to reform the corrupt system we inherited."

The Greek government specifically asked the EU not to keep lending Greece money for the purpose of paying back creditors. The Greek government correctly pointed out that the inherited debt was unsustainable, and that you don't lend a bankrupt person money: you force the creditors to take a hit and create a realistic payment plan.

> There are plenty of evil things the EU and its many bodies do, but this wasn't a good example.

Imposing a completely unnecessary Great-Depression-level event on a member state - while running roughshod over that country's democratic system - was pretty evil. Greece went through years of massive unemployment, people's pensions and healthcare were slashed, and young people left the country in droves as practical economic refugees. The reason why the EU took this hard line was that some of the member states (like Germany and the Netherlands) wanted to send a message to the other financially weak states (like Portugal, Spain and Italy). In Germany, there was also a lot of populist politics involved: bashing "lazy Greeks" was good politics, and plenty of politicians made a lot of hay over being tough on the Greeks.

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#347
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. How do regulators expect tech companies to verify the real age of users (without further intrusions of privacy)? 2. How do the regulators expect tech companies to verify the parents of child users? 3. Do regulators want tech companies to collect every child's birth certificate?

Use one of the many companies in this space to verify the users ID? Or push some development in this space to find a better way? Or like, basically anything except pretending it’s not an issue and externalising the cost + issues onto everyone else while you reap fantastic profits?

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Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we automatically assume that anonymization is good? Where are the anonymous town squares?

I dunno, I was pretty careful not to assume that in my comment. The town square metaphor is really not a great one for the internet. You don't run nearly as high a risk of getting doxxed or swatted for speaking your mind in a physical public place. And if the unspoken suggestion is that anonymous doxxing would be impossible or too costly/risky in a hypothetical de-anonymized world, I'd call BS. Even if it worked, tha…

Also, the town square is ephemeral. Sure, maybe it's written down somewhere, heck maybe the local scribe even publishes it in the next day's paper. But it won't show up 7 years later as the third Google search result when someone searches your name.

You either need the right to be forgotten, or the right to be anonymous.

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fines against companies should be revenue based instead of profit based. Companies have too much wiggle room from revenue to profit.

Why would you punish success? Do you not want successful companies?

Not in the EU!

Re: TikTok fined €345M for breaking EU data law on children’s accounts

#350
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's behavior during the Greek debt crisis was pretty evil. Imagine if a US state were in serious debt, and the US federal response were to slash Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare benefits to the state. The EU view was that Greece should get out of debt by massively slashing government spending, including on virtually all social services, which sent the country spiralling into a Great-Depression-level econom…

Greece has not been treated well, but you should also admit that Greece really fucked up. They even falsified their stats to adopt the Euro. > Imagine if a US state were in serious debt Except the EU is not responsible for and does not control their member states' finances. The EU has a limited jurisdiction. E.g. taxation, education and defence are not part of it. Being part of the Euro zone does bring certain obliga…

> They even falsified their stats to adopt the Euro.

"They" is ill defined here. The people who falsified the finances were not the people who suffered under austerity.

> Except the EU is not responsible for and does not control their member states' finances.

During austerity, the "troika" (which included the European Commission and the European Central Bank) micromanaged Greece's finances. The Greek government was basically held hostage and forced to take very specific measures, down to which tax to change by which amount and which state assets to privatize in which way. The EU publicly aspires to be much more than just some soulless customs and currency union, and throwing a member state under the bus in this way and immiserating its population goes against what the EU supposedly stands for.

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