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‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#151

Post by schlauerfox »

chrisandchris wrote: post #137
thedrbrian wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Letting it go to rack and ruin is storing up misery, so it worries me that in the UK we've had 20 years of government that has effectively "washed its hands" of water management. interesting twitter thread here. https://x.com/LoftusSteve/status/1659637753158545414?s=20

Twitter threads already were difficult to read. Now it seems I don't get to read anything without an account at all?

Yeah, I just hope people shift to mastodon because I'm not signing up for that site again.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#152

Post by nurettin »

q1w2 wrote: post #148
nurettin wrote: post #126

[flagged]

This comment is in bad taste. You're making fun of their religion after they just suffered a catastrophe. Look in the mirror before posting comments like this.

I live with said religion. And the mirror looks absolutely fine.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#153

Post by greggsy »

chrisandchris wrote: post #137
thedrbrian wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Letting it go to rack and ruin is storing up misery, so it worries me that in the UK we've had 20 years of government that has effectively "washed its hands" of water management. interesting twitter thread here. https://x.com/LoftusSteve/status/1659637753158545414?s=20

Twitter threads already were difficult to read. Now it seems I don't get to read anything without an account at all?

TL;DR - things only look bad because measurement got better.

Just create a throwaway account, complaining won’t change things.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#154

Post by [deleted] »

2devnull wrote: post #149
ganglandfee wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah. You realize you just said facts are facts and that facts are just that, they are neither right or wrong, hypocritical or amoral or immoral . Hmmm. That’s tough to argue against when you put it like that. Another way to put it is that many facts can be true at the same time. Superpowers are gonna Superpower, but they are also hypocrites operating on a double standard.

Yes! That’s exactly right! So then the question is, are all facts the same? The answer I’ve come to is that some facts are more useful than others. The fact that America is a great power is a very important fact. The fact the great powers act alike is a useful fact. The fact that can derived from these, that America does great power stuff, is of no value. It’s just the obvious result of other facts which are more imp…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#155

Post by legutierr »

lenkite wrote: post #117
legutierr wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Russian puppet was overthrown by a revolution of the people, and replaced by a democratically-elected president, followed by multiple successful elections, and the peaceful transfer of power from one party to another, over nearly a decade, and Russian apologists call it a "coup".

A coup sponsored by the US and orchestrated by Nuland with support of the U.S. state department.

Right, of course. The thousands of people gathered in protest in Kiev were all there at the direction of the U.S. State Department.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#156

Post by legutierr »

lenkite wrote: post #121
legutierr wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Lybian forces were on the verge of committing war crimes and killing thousands, then "intervention" would be an appropriate word to describe what the Western powers did. They "intervened" to prevent an imminent atrocity, if you believe them. And I am inclined to believe them, not because of what Western governments have said, but because the whole Arab Spring played out in real time on social media. I agree that w…

> But he was killed by Libyans, who were angry about the Libyans that Gaddafi himself had killed. Sorry, I suggest you dig deeper. He was killed by Misrata fighters who were directly NATO sponsored and equipped. There were lots of articles on how NATO supported Misrata at the time.

Misrata is in Libya, no? Were the people who captured and killed Gaddafi not Libyans?

Are you saying that these people were working under orders from NATO? What was their motivation, if they were not fundamentally angry about how Gaddafi had treated their fellow countrymen?

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#157

Post by [deleted] »

2devnull wrote: post #149
ganglandfee wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah. You realize you just said facts are facts and that facts are just that, they are neither right or wrong, hypocritical or amoral or immoral . Hmmm. That’s tough to argue against when you put it like that. Another way to put it is that many facts can be true at the same time. Superpowers are gonna Superpower, but they are also hypocrites operating on a double standard.

Yes! That’s exactly right! So then the question is, are all facts the same? The answer I’ve come to is that some facts are more useful than others. The fact that America is a great power is a very important fact. The fact the great powers act alike is a useful fact. The fact that can derived from these, that America does great power stuff, is of no value. It’s just the obvious result of other facts which are more imp…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#158

Post by helpfulContrib »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #5

Heartbreaking. The tone of all observers is that this is as much a failure of governance as an environmental catastrophe. As everyone who was at Burning Man learned, plumbing and drainage is the basis of civilisation. Letting it go to rack and ruin is storing up misery, so it worries me that in the UK we've had 20 years of government that has effectively "washed its hands" of water management.

The human loss is enormous. If only we applied our war resources to recovery instead, it would be extraordinary to see the people of the region granted access to the immense technological prowess of humanity, with intent to heal, not harm.

The poor of the region know little more than suffering, already. Worse than us all. If only we had the temerity to drop kettles, not bombs.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#159

Post by CapricornNoble »

reducesuffering wrote: post #142
CapricornNoble wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is naked Russian propaganda masquerading as enlightened discourse. OSCE via Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-reports-surge-numb... Unless Reuters is "naked Russian propaganda" now, there was definitely an uptick in kinetic activity in the Donbas, with most of it falling on the Separatist side of the line of control.

Prigozhin himself, one of the primary architects of the invasion of Ukraine, stated that the invasion reason given was bullshit. https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/16721950353732157... "By February 24th, there was nothing out of the ordinary. Now the [Russian] Defense Ministry attempts to fool society, tries to fool the President, and tell the story of a crazy aggression from the Ukrainian side and they were…

So are you asserting that the OSCE was carrying water for the Russian Defense Ministry?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_...

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#160

Post by dragonwriter »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #95
mymac wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> This is naked Russian propaganda masquerading as enlightened discourse. OSCE via Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/osce-reports-surge-numb... Unless Reuters is "naked Russian propaganda" now, there was definitely an uptick in kinetic activity in the Donbas, with most of it falling on the Separatist side of the line of control.

That there was a surge in numbers of explosions in East Ukraine is not Russian propaganda, everyone agrees it happened.

That the surge in shelling was Ukraine-initiated against Russian-backed separatists (and not vice versa coordinated from Moscow as part of the prelude to its own invasion)—and, even moreso, that even if it was, a Ukrainian offensive against separatists in Ukraine (and not even against the openly Russian-occupied part) was a reasonable basis for seeing a threat of NATO invading (or backing an invasion of) Russia—is the Russian propaganda.

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