Why I canceled my college subscription • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#11

Post by MaxGabriel » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:22 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #6

tseabrooks wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I'm ready to get on the Anti-College bandwagon. There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately and while part of me agrees another part of me mourns for all of these students leaving college. I know it may be an unpopular opinion but I doubt most people can get the tools they need for success in many fields (Even software) without a college degree. I'm in no way making the claim t…

>There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately It's no different than the general anti-intellectual sentiment growing in the US. The feeling that you can learn it all on your own without anyone telling or anyone's help is what is driving so many peoples thought processes recently. That people looked at and treat higher education as just job training and nothing more doesn't help either.

Higher education isn't just job training, but that's what many people want, especially for the cost.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#12

Post by yummyfajitas » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:24 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #6

tseabrooks wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I'm ready to get on the Anti-College bandwagon. There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately and while part of me agrees another part of me mourns for all of these students leaving college. I know it may be an unpopular opinion but I doubt most people can get the tools they need for success in many fields (Even software) without a college degree. I'm in no way making the claim t…

>There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately It's no different than the general anti-intellectual sentiment growing in the US. The feeling that you can learn it all on your own without anyone telling or anyone's help is what is driving so many peoples thought processes recently. That people looked at and treat higher education as just job training and nothing more doesn't help either.

...anti-intellectual sentiment growing in the US. The feeling that you can learn it all on your own without anyone telling or anyone's help...

How is the idea that you can use your own intellect and educate yourself anti-intellectual?

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#13

Post by c4m » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:27 PM UTC

I fully support this trend of people thinking critically about college and making their own decisions about it.

However be careful when dropping out if you'll ever want to work outside the country. Most countries require a 4 year degree for work visas, and this can sometimes be onerous to get around. This is especially important for those who don't have US citizenship.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#14

Post by Pent » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:36 PM UTC

I'm of the impression, that for the most part, college is about networking. The material is a side benefit that you could pick up on your own. It feels like he picked up on that(joining the fraternity) and decided the rest wasn't worth the debt.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#15

Post by qbproger » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:41 PM UTC

tseabrooks wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I'm ready to get on the Anti-College bandwagon. There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately and while part of me agrees another part of me mourns for all of these students leaving college. I know it may be an unpopular opinion but I doubt most people can get the tools they need for success in many fields (Even software) without a college degree. I'm in no way making the claim t…

I agree with you. I went through Computer Science in college. While I've never worked with someone who didn't finish college, even working with people with different degrees you see where a computer science degree helps. I have friends with computer engineering degrees that had to teach themselves algorithms and algorithm analysis. Of course they did a good job at this because they were disciplined about it.

That said, every once in a while I'll say something and we either ended up having different terms for it or something they missed in their studies.

Another thing to note, while they may be able to get an entry level job now. The places I have worked required a CS degree. We tried relaxing that requirement one time with horrible results (inability to finish played into it). I'm not saying you can't be good without a degree, just saying from a company's perspective you may be a safer bet.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#16

Post by kenjackson » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:42 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #12

mhurron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately It's no different than the general anti-intellectual sentiment growing in the US. The feeling that you can learn it all on your own without anyone telling or anyone's help is what is driving so many peoples thought processes recently. That people looked at and treat higher education as just job training and nothing more doesn't help either.

...anti-intellectual sentiment growing in the US. The feeling that you can learn it all on your own without anyone telling or anyone's help... How is the idea that you can use your own intellect and educate yourself anti-intellectual?

I think the anti-intellectual sentiment is a bit broader. I'd define it as, "Those people who studied this their whole lives and have degrees and papers in journals don't know more about this topic than I do."

The anti-intellectual movement is the belief that everyone is biased, and since everyone is biased their scientific position is no more correct than mine.

This started more than a decade ago, and I used to joke that one day people would say, "Science and Nature are left wing rags". About three months ago I actually had a debate where someone said almost exactly that -- "All those papers published in science journals are by Democrats!"

I love self-education (although I'm of the camp that believes all education is self-education, even when you go to college) -- but the anti-intellectual movement is taking a fringe left-wing pursuit from the 60s (relativism) and making it mainstream for the right-wing in this century.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#17

Post by pumblechook » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:43 PM UTC

tseabrooks wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I'm ready to get on the Anti-College bandwagon. There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately and while part of me agrees another part of me mourns for all of these students leaving college. I know it may be an unpopular opinion but I doubt most people can get the tools they need for success in many fields (Even software) without a college degree. I'm in no way making the claim t…

I think this point is a lot more salient for CS majors than other liberal arts majors. After pursuing a 4 year liberal arts degree in undergrad and now pursuing a CS graduate degree (after working in the industry some years), I can safely say from experience that I would NEVER have been exposed to a majority of the important concepts without higher education, and I think I'm much better off for it. Besides forcing a solid work ethic (science and math at the higher ed level is considerably harder than the equivalent liberal arts), the things you learn will actually be used.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#18

Post by irahul » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:46 PM UTC

hobin wrote: post #9

What's with all the 'Boo! College is bad!' posts these days? Don't get me wrong, if people find good jobs and educate themselves without going to college, more power to them. However, I dislike the tendency of some(/many) of these posts to present college as a waste of time. It's not. And that's from someone who dropped out the first time around. ;)

> What's with all the 'Boo! College is bad!' posts these days?

It's "Why I am unsubscribing" which is different from "Boo! College is bad!"

> Don't get me wrong, if people find good jobs and educate themselves without going to college, more power to them.

Isn't the article exactly about that?

> However, I dislike the tendency of some(/many) of these posts to present college as a waste of time. It's not.

Whether college is a waste of time or not depends on the college, teachers, peers, if you can afford it, what you want to get out of it, how much work you are willing to put, and a variety of other factors. Saying that "college isn't waste of time" is as meaningless as "college is a waste of time". Also, the article wasn't arguing either ways - "what didn't work for me" isn't the same as "it doesn't work."

> And that's from someone who dropped out the first time around. ;)

I am pretty sure for every "I quit my job and started my company" there are many "Don't quit your job. That's from someone who quit his job". Different people, different strokes - there isn't any universal rule of thumb.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#19

Post by tseabrooks » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:49 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #6

tseabrooks wrote: post #3

I'm not sure I'm ready to get on the Anti-College bandwagon. There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately and while part of me agrees another part of me mourns for all of these students leaving college. I know it may be an unpopular opinion but I doubt most people can get the tools they need for success in many fields (Even software) without a college degree. I'm in no way making the claim t…

>There's been a rash of Anti-College sentiment around this place lately It's no different than the general anti-intellectual sentiment growing in the US. The feeling that you can learn it all on your own without anyone telling or anyone's help is what is driving so many peoples thought processes recently. That people looked at and treat higher education as just job training and nothing more doesn't help either.

I was going to mention what I see as a growing Anti-Intellectualism in America but felt it may have veered to far off course. I think the higher-ed as job training is a real problem. I would never dream of trying to find a job in the humanities but I cherish my exposure and learning in those areas.

However, as someone pointed out below; Many people do just want job training. Perhaps, the solution is to offer traditional college and job training along side each other at the same institutions and let students pick which "track" they need / prefer.

Re: Why I canceled my college subscription

#20

Post by celerity » Sun, Mar 25, 2012, 3:49 PM UTC

It dedinitely makes sense to forego college for some people. However, in many scientific diaciplines (math, physics, biology, chemistry) it is virtually impossible to succeed without focused mentorship, an immersive environment, and in the case of experimental science, capital funding. I would also guess that many types of engineering require a similar atmosphere.

That is basically the reason why I find these discussions too sweeping and generalizing to be valid. What works for one person or field, might not apply to another.

In addition, for those who can afford it, college provides a tremendous general education and exploration opportunity.