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California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

latimes.com

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Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#31

Post by Alupis »

callalex wrote: post #30
Alupis wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no citizen enforcement clause for most of these laws and therefore this mostly means nothing - and where there is it just turns into a money grab/shakedown by bottom feeding lawyers (see existing FAL & P65 suits). Suits get settled, lawyers get paid, plaintiff gets a cut, no wrongdoing is admitted, and nothing changes. It's not about claiming ignorance. It's about not caring about CA viral laws and CA's inabi…

It’s really odd to me that you are telling me that my lived experience is false and impossible. Every subscription I have made since this law passed, I have been able to cancel online. This includes newspapers, store club memberships, random podcasts and other online entertainment, educational software, and more. Sometimes the government really does work for the people. It is actually possible.

Overwhelming majority of those things you listed could already be cancelled online.

You can read the laws yourself. There's not a lot of teeth for small businesses to comply.

Go look at the state AG website for P65 complaints (they are all by law published). 99% are privately settled without wrongdoing (you can see this on AG website too), and some fee is paid to the plaintiff's attorneys. Sometimes the math says it's cheaper to comply, but often not. Small (and even big) businesses around the country freely ignore P65 despite the law having citizen enforcement. If you search on the AG website you will find many repeat offenders. P65 laws have been around for decades...

There's a difference between what people believe should happen and what actually happens. If you believe these laws have "won" the privacy war - you are mistaken.

Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#33

Post by hedora »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #15
CharlesW wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm astounded that they aren't considered data brokers in the eyes of U.S. law.

The standard answer (at least for Google, not sure about Facebook) is that they're not considered data brokers because they only sell ad placement based on the data, not the data itself.

Google helped craft these laws. This is classic regulatory capture.

In particular, it is banning horizontally integrated surveillance capitalism (which requires the sale of data between the data gathering companies and the people using it), but not vertically integrated surveillance capitalism.

In all likelihood, some companies in this ecosystem will be forced to sell at fire sales to conglomerates (like Google) simply to avoid having to comply with this law. Of course, this benefits organizations that are large enough to acquire the companies, and no one else.

So, people with financial conflicts of interest are picking winners and losers, which is pretty much standard practice in US politics these days.

I personally think this whole consumer tracking industry should be shut down. It should be illegal to gather the types of information that this bill regulates.

Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#35

Post by hedora »

azinman2 wrote: post #7

Curious about the issues surrounding credit scores and how much this gets into it.

Back when interest rates were low, Rocket Mortgage incorrectly tanked my credit score. They refused to fix it, which means they were liable for whatever economic damage that causes.

When I refinanced, I explained the situation to the other bank's loan agent. They emailed their underwriting division, and the underwriters simply issued an override.

Not sure if that works these days or not, but my point is that credit scores are complete bullshit. Hopefully most people will push the button, inadvertently opting out of credit reporting, and that corner of the industry will simply stop existing.

Lenders already do more due diligence than the credit agencies do.

If you default on a loan, there could be a central record (say, at the court house) of this, and lenders could consult that. That would fill in the remaining missing functionality of the score (and do so in a way that is transparently free of institutional racism, etc).

Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#36

Post by qwerty456127 »

I want a bill which would let me just ban all data brokers forever. I don't mind first parties to save some relevant data necessary for them to do their job, I can even understand 3rd parties like Google Analytics involved, but data brokers - I really don't want any of them to have any data about me ever.

Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#37

Post by adrr »

hedora wrote: post #35
azinman2 wrote: post #7

Curious about the issues surrounding credit scores and how much this gets into it.

Back when interest rates were low, Rocket Mortgage incorrectly tanked my credit score. They refused to fix it, which means they were liable for whatever economic damage that causes. When I refinanced, I explained the situation to the other bank's loan agent. They emailed their underwriting division, and the underwriters simply issued an override. Not sure if that works these days or not, but my point is that credit s…

Besides defaults how would you get precision in a model without any other data? Payment history and total outstanding credit wouldn’t be there. You would have to trust the customer to provide you with all these details.

Without precision in the risk model, cost to the consumer will go up to mitigate risk. Someone who has paid all their credit lines for 10 years but and has never defaulted has the same risk profile as a person who has frequently missed payments.

Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#38

Post by NelsonMinar »

callalex wrote: post #24
Alupis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The Parent comment strikes me as being very naïve. Right to Unsubscribe? Gmail and other email providers do this for you even if you are not a CA resident and even if the Marketer does not have a built-in Unsubscribe link. From a Marketer perspective, you cost money to send emails to, and if you are not going to open, they kind of don't want you on the list anyway. CCPA == GDPR? Not even close. Majority of C…

The right to unsubscribe being discussed here has nothing to do with emails. It states that if you paid for a subscription online, you must be able to cancel it online within a few clicks as well. No “call us” or “send a registered letter during a full moon and low tide only” nonsense. It’s really great.

There are numerous summaries of that right available here: https://www.google.com/search?q=california+right+to+unsubscr...

Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#39

Post by paulddraper »

hedora wrote: post #33
0xcde4c3db wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard answer (at least for Google, not sure about Facebook) is that they're not considered data brokers because they only sell ad placement based on the data, not the data itself.

Google helped craft these laws. This is classic regulatory capture. In particular, it is banning horizontally integrated surveillance capitalism (which requires the sale of data between the data gathering companies and the people using it), but not vertically integrated surveillance capitalism. In all likelihood, some companies in this ecosystem will be forced to sell at fire sales to conglomerates (like Google) simp…

You do understand that there is a real difference between selling ad placement and selling personal data, right?

Maybe you hate both, but there is a meaningful difference.

Re: California passes bill to make it easier to delete data from data brokers

#40

Post by vineyardmike »

hef19898 wrote: post #18
0xcde4c3db wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard answer (at least for Google, not sure about Facebook) is that they're not considered data brokers because they only sell ad placement based on the data, not the data itself.

One could make a case for splitting the data collection activities from the ad sales business as part of an anti trust case. Or pass regulations and laws to that effect.

That would be a pretty weird case to make. Typically anti trust is used to prevent a business from using market dominance in one market from entering another market. Considering they don’t participate in the data sales business it’d be a weird scenario to force them to start. I’d prefer we don’t force them to start.

Gmail with ads seems way preferable to Gmail who sells your data to others.

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