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‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#41

Post by kranke155 »

PedroBatista wrote: post #9
totetsu wrote: post #2

When ever I see something like this I can’t help but wonder if it would have happened if EU and America hadn’t assassinated Gaddafi. I know that’s kind of a knee jerk reaction, but really what is happening in lybia now? What’s the plan? Protect the oil pipelines and just don’t look too close anymore?

The "EU and America" didn't assassinate Gaddafi. If the "alternate reality" didn't already erased it, you may recall something called "Arab Spring". It's not like Gaddafi was in a stable position at the time, and even less likely he would skate the whole situation until today. Gaddafi was "assassinated" because there was a full-on civil war and the EU and America bombed the massive convoy he had sent to crush the reb…

The UK Parliamentary report on the Lybian intervention kind of refutes some of your points. Worth reading

1. Gaddafi was talking about war crimes but didn’t commit them in reality

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#42

Post by 31337Logic »

penneallagricia wrote: post #13
mcv wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If the EU and US hadn't stopped Gaddafi from killing his own people, the tragedy would also have been terrible. Worse than now? Better than now? Should they have known? It's impossible to say.

If its impossible to say, then why intervene? If you can't prove that bombing will have net positive effects then why do it?

This is not exactly a fair comment. It's the same reasoning when you attempt to justify /any/ action. You can't do it for a guaranteed outcome (because no such states can be guaranteed) but that doesn't mean you can't try to achieve a desired outcome.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#43

Post by tokai »

totetsu wrote: post #2

When ever I see something like this I can’t help but wonder if it would have happened if EU and America hadn’t assassinated Gaddafi. I know that’s kind of a knee jerk reaction, but really what is happening in lybia now? What’s the plan? Protect the oil pipelines and just don’t look too close anymore?

[flagged]

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#44

Post by ericmay »

boppo1 wrote: post #38
PedroBatista wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already see there is no point in continue this conversation. I notice your standards for US/EU intervention are very very high and basically nobody should ever being killed. Why don't you apply the same reasoning to Gaddafi's regime and Syria/Russia/Al-Qaeda? You seem to have every problem existing in the Universe when the evil West does something ( and also a problem when it doesn't, also a problem that the West e…

> intervention We used to call this war. Is Russia just ‘intervening’ in Ukraine right now?

We didn’t use to call it war, so you’re wrong about that.

We used the term “intervention” to describe limited military action. Countries throughout history have conducted interventions as opposed to full-scale war.

Russia’s assault on Ukraine isn’t an intervention and is instead a war and we know this because of the size and scale of the operation but also the intentions of the operation, which, are to take over the entire country of Ukraine.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#45

Post by misja111 »

mcv wrote: post #24
penneallagricia wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its impossible to say, then why intervene? If you can't prove that bombing will have net positive effects then why do it?

One reason is because they didn't intervene in Rwanda, and got widely criticised for that. I believe it was decided that genocide demands intervention.

The bottom line seems to be that the West is criticized by some people no matter what they do, or even what they don't do.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#47

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

themgt wrote: post #21
PedroBatista wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "EU and America" didn't assassinate Gaddafi. If the "alternate reality" didn't already erased it, you may recall something called "Arab Spring". It's not like Gaddafi was in a stable position at the time, and even less likely he would skate the whole situation until today. Gaddafi was "assassinated" because there was a full-on civil war and the EU and America bombed the massive convoy he had sent to crush the reb…

The "EU and America" didn't assassinate Gaddafi. Right. "We came, we saw, he died! [lol]" Gaddafi was "assassinated" because there was a full-on civil war and the EU and America bombed the massive convoy he had sent to crush the rebellion in Benghazi and enforced a no-fly zone otherwise Gaddafi's planes would obliterate the rebel forces and the civilians living in those cities This is just revisionist nonsense. There…

>>>>>>>> Because our foreign policy is run by utter amoral hypocrites and liars.

No. Don't assume malice where ineptitude will be sufficient.

Our Foreign Policy is run by armchair, master-degree wannabe-generals in suits and ties, some dark triad, some not, but always away from real bullets, to instead being preoccupied with their own advancement, protecting their friends, and increasing the size of their portfolio, justifying their grand aims with real (or imagined) claims of good intentions

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#49

Post by continuitylimit »

boppo1 wrote: post #39
orwin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For accuracy's sake (i can't find the Atlantic article talking about it, and i'm not bored enough to spend my day going through Wikileaks, so right now the source is trustmebro, i hope that someone have the documents/article in favorite), thanks to Hilary's leaked emails, we know that Obama's administration wasn't keen on going in Libya, and only Sarkozy(France) and Cameron(UK) insistence on attacking decided the US…

How did France compel the US about anything?

The powers have long divided ‘loot’ — meaning weaker nations that they can exploit — between themselves. Africa is very much French territory. It’s like asking how does a Don from the Council compel the God Father to agree to a hit. “It’s just business”.

Qaddafi got what he deserved from a karmic point of view. He was instrumental in gifting the Islamic Republic to Iran so hope you enjoyed that bayonet Colonel. But obviously his regime was far better for Libya and Africans than the loonies that are cranked up, trained, and armed by Western intelligence agencies as part of their mad approach to managing exploited realms. But again “it’s just business”.

Re: ‘Sea is constantly dumping bodies’: fears Libya flood death toll may hit 20k

#50

Post by edgyquant »

themgt wrote: post #21
PedroBatista wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "EU and America" didn't assassinate Gaddafi. If the "alternate reality" didn't already erased it, you may recall something called "Arab Spring". It's not like Gaddafi was in a stable position at the time, and even less likely he would skate the whole situation until today. Gaddafi was "assassinated" because there was a full-on civil war and the EU and America bombed the massive convoy he had sent to crush the reb…

The "EU and America" didn't assassinate Gaddafi. Right. "We came, we saw, he died! [lol]" Gaddafi was "assassinated" because there was a full-on civil war and the EU and America bombed the massive convoy he had sent to crush the rebellion in Benghazi and enforced a no-fly zone otherwise Gaddafi's planes would obliterate the rebel forces and the civilians living in those cities This is just revisionist nonsense. There…

[flagged]
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