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The Tyranny of the Marginal User

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Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#481

Post by wvenable »

wbobeirne wrote: post #349

I worked at OkCupid from 2013-2017 and totally resonate with the author that mid-2010s OkCupid was a really special product, and that it took a steep decline as the decade went on. It's not entirely fair to say that the Match acquisition immediately caused that decline; I started a couple years after Match got the company in its hands, and only two of the original founders were still focused on OkCupid full time. But…

I don't understand why so many companies are against simply developing a new product with a new brand instead of lobotomizing their own product.

It seems to have over and over where a product and brand that makes decent profit is utterly destroyed in an attempt to acquire a new market.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#482

Post by collaborative »

grotorea wrote: post #350
Karunamon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it bloody well does not. The "maximize shareholder value" thing has never been read that strictly by a court of law (otherwise, Apple would have been ripe for a suit when they told off an activist investor rep who was upset they were pursuing environmental goals at the expense of better ROI [1]). Companies hollow out (or enshittify) their products because it is easy and because it guarantees results at least in th…

Yes but it doesn't have to be upheld in a court of law. It just has to be what corporate officers are ordered, selected and incentivized around. It doesn't need to be legally required for people to do something.

For decades now bilionares have bought companies, improved numbers in the short term, and sold them for a profit

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#483

Post by airtonix »

npsimons wrote: post #282
somedude895 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very good point that I think some commenters here should take to heart. No matter how enlightened we think we are, we're all part of the masses and behave this way at one point or another.

> No matter how enlightened we think we are, we're all part of the masses and behave this way at one point or another. While this is true, it stands to question: why build systems to encourage this? Shouldn't we be trying to do better? If nothing else, how can one avoid falling into these traps?

[dead]

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#484

Post by bsenftner »

seizethecheese wrote: post #443
selectodude wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're based on constant growth. I guess over a long enough time frame, constant growth is exponential, but not in the windows that an investor expects to be paid back. Exponential growth is only expected in software because the development costs are so high and the marginal costs are so low. There's zero cost to growth, which makes it a winner-take-all market.

Both of these points are wrong. A business that’s shrinking but throwing off cash is with a lot still. Only the valuation multiple is based on growth. Exponential growth is expected in startups of all industries, software only makes the margins and distribution easier.

Exponential growth is also expected within new businesses within an established corporation. Similar to software's margins and distribution advantage, an existing corporation can often pursue new businesses with an existing infrastructure that approaches minimal additional expense beyond human salaries. The reference to "hurdle rate" is an often used term by corporate MBAs evaluating the worth of a new line of business.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#485

Post by ncruces »

freedomben wrote: post #403
ncruces wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to realize that the sales business model does not necessarily lead to better outcomes. I (pretty much single handedly) made a reasonably profitable mobile app. It was my bread and butter for a decade. It has millions of downloads and hundreds of thousands of monthly active users. It's a “power” tool, not a game. Unfortunately, it depends on servers for a lot of it's core features. There are no accounts, d…

You would know your market way better than me, but just anecdotally I'm usually willing to pay $5 for a useful app. Based on your numbers it sounds like that would still make you money after 10 or so years. If the app is source available, I'll go up much higher. I'm definitely not a typical user, but for a "power" tool I'd think I'm in your market.

I know you exist. I'm actually able to find literally dozens of people like you, every month.

OTOH, for everyone of you (users willing to pay $1 for a tool that'll solve a problem they have every once in a while), I'm able to find 1000 that'll just install the ad supported app, use it that one time and forget about it (until the next time they need it).

Trust me: the barrier to get even $1 from a user for an app the majority uses once a week tops for a couple of minutes, is immense, especially if they can run it for free, in exchange for the annoyance of a single banner ad, that you can dismiss (and go full screen) after 30s, if you do use it longer than that.

But the free version must exist, for discoverablity if nothing else, and experience shows that degrading it to drive sales only jeopardizes total revenue. So ads it is.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#486

Post by JohnMakin »

Crusoe123 wrote: post #342
bluGill wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found a hack around facebook that partially works: remove yourself from all groups. So only friends are in your feed. Then every time a friend shares something from one of their group go hit "block all from [group]". Facebook now has less junk to show me as I've blocked most of it, and so I see my friends. I've also set a rule that when I block two groups I'm done for the session. Anytime I share something on…

You can filter your feed to only show friends stuff (and it's chronological) https://www.facebook.com/?filter=friends

not on mobile

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#487

Post by genewitch »

hbn wrote: post #343
volkk wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i work at a dating app and number of fun dates (worded slightly differently) is our north star metric! it's one of the major ones, and it has helped it stay relatively non predatory :)

But doesn't that inherently imply you try to keep users from making long-term connections? Users having lots of fun dates are not doing them with the same person and continuing to use your app. It's a bunch of dates that ultimately went nowhere. That's the thing with dating apps/sites. If you succeed too well, you've lost 2 users.

this is usually where i get frustrated with capitalism. Not everything has to be about retaining customers. If i hire someone to build a brick outbuilding, i probably won't need another brick outbuilding.

I'd rather a "pay for 3-6 months of full access upfront, a 3 day trial option" than a subscription model for anything where there's a chance i won't be using it in 3-6 months. when i see a dating site ask for a year upfront i know they're not going to actually help me.

I met my wife (and two close friends) on OKCupid over 15 years ago, so i remember what it was, and what a site could be again, just not OKC

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#488

Post by sanderjd »

ncruces wrote: post #355
sanderjd wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I like to pay for things. This dynamic only really exists for things that are given away for free.

People need to realize that the sales business model does not necessarily lead to better outcomes. I (pretty much single handedly) made a reasonably profitable mobile app. It was my bread and butter for a decade. It has millions of downloads and hundreds of thousands of monthly active users. It's a “power” tool, not a game. Unfortunately, it depends on servers for a lot of it's core features. There are no accounts, d…

I get why people do ad business models!

But if I were a user of your app, I would personally prefer to pay you $5/yr for whatever "fancy upgrades" it would require for that to get you enough subscribers to be workable.

But this is a personal preference! It's definitely the case that most people prefer to use free (apologies, I don't know if this applies to your app, but it usually does) crap.

But I do think a niche of people like me totally exists, and is actually not that small.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#489

Post by genewitch »

Vicinity9635 wrote: post #461

The question I have is why is Match Group allowed to have a monopoly on online dating? > Match Group is an American internet and technology company headquartered in Dallas, Texas. It owns and operates the largest global portfolio of popular online dating services including Tinder, Match.com, Meetic, OkCupid, Hinge, Plenty of Fish, OurTime, and other dating global brands. I can't even name another dating site.

christianmingle, grindr, ashley madison, and then all the ones for more, uh, enthusiastic relationships. But from that list and the catchall at the end, Match may own all of those as well, seeing as how OKC was designed for people who weren't compatible with match.com, and around the same time, plenty of fish was the main competitor. Match bought both.

Re: The Tyranny of the Marginal User

#490

Post by bcrosby95 »

munificent wrote: post #29

> We’ve all been Marl at one time or another This, to me, is the key line in this quite good article. It's not that software companies are catering to those other people who are infinitely stupid and deserving of our scorn. It's that they are catering to the worse impulses in all of us and encouraging us to become those people.

It's a pretty interesting statement. I used to be fine with "microboredoms" and think about other things, such as a book I'm reading, a game I want to play, or even work.

I noticed these days that I spend more time during those "microboredoms" on my phone. I have 10 seconds? Check out reddit!

I've been trying to kick this habit, enjoy my surroundings more, or get lost in my head like I used to.

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