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You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

physiqonomics.com

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Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#21

Post by DiggyJohnson »

simmerup wrote: post #14
WWLink wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm doing CICO and I have been since February, but the thing I found helped make it a lot more livable was to do a small deficit (200-300 calories) instead of a big one (500-600 calories). Ultimately, the most important thing? Just logging everything I eat and hoping to hit said goal. Some days I end up eating 100% of my 'sedentary' calories. Oh well. I still end up losing weight when I look at it in the scale of a m…

Once going on my fasting and only eating 3 meals a day, I lost 8kg and for the last two months have been maintained a stable weight without having to think about calories at all. I won’t be going back. Edit: also, I was never massively overweight. Generally my waist at its height was around 33inches. It was just a hard way to live.

Not sure if you're missing a word in your first sentence. "Only eating 3 meals a day" surely isn't fasting, no?

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#22

Post by adzm »

Once I got a kitchen scale I was astounded at how terrible I was at estimating the actual amounts of things that I was using. While I am sure it is not as simple as calories in versus out, if you take anything away from this article at least let it be that people are very bad about estimating their actual portion sizes. And if you get a chance, grab a kitchen scale (and keep some measuring cups handy too) and try guessing then measuring and see how well you do! I think you'll be very surprised. Especially, as mentioned in the article, pouring liquid, which is very very easy to drastically overpour.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#23

Post by simmerup »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #21
simmerup wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once going on my fasting and only eating 3 meals a day, I lost 8kg and for the last two months have been maintained a stable weight without having to think about calories at all. I won’t be going back. Edit: also, I was never massively overweight. Generally my waist at its height was around 33inches. It was just a hard way to live.

Not sure if you're missing a word in your first sentence. "Only eating 3 meals a day" surely isn't fasting, no?

I eat breakfast at around 8/9ish, lunch, and then dinner before 7, normally at 6. This gives me my rough 12/12 with some give and take. I specify 3 meals because I no longer snack in between them at all. Including no sugary drinks or sugary tea.

Once a week or two I skip a day of meals to make a 36hour fast. This depends on my social calendar whether it’s possible

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#24

Post by amenhotep »

simmerup wrote: post #4

Annoying article to read. Why swear so much? Anyway. I used to believe this. Every few months I'd flip between dieting, and not dieting (putting on weight). When dieting, I'd go on a 500 calories restriction. This meant religious calorie counting, going to bed every night hungry, and generally being grumpy constantly. Waking up in the night because I wanted some toast or something and trying to work out if I could fi…

You're still fundamentally finding success due to your calories in matching your calories out, though? It's just a match over a longer timescale. Did you feel people were telling you that have to match calories over every single 24 hour period, or something?

I don't mean to disagree fundamentally, intermittent fasting seems great and it's awesome that you've found a way to keep your calorie intake controlled without suffering constant hunger, but I don't get why you seem to think it's somehow in opposition to CICO. Of course you can eat 48 hours worth of food one day and 0 the next. That's kind of the beauty of it, as long as the numbers work out on average you can eat however you like - the only tricky part is that it's up to you to find a way to make the numbers work out sustainably. Which you have!

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#25

Post by avery17 »

bartonfink wrote: post #5

You're not losing fat because you're too sedentary. You absolutely can outrun your fork. You just have to run a lot further than you think. Show me a fat person who runs 50 miles a week.

This is the kind of thinking that lead to the show biggest loser. Not a single one of those people maintained their weightloss because youre not going to turn a 600lb person into an Olympic distance runner overnight. Its unmaintainable! Not to mention they have to keep eating an insane amount of food to push 50 miles a week which means if they stop running they gain all the weight back because they never fixed their eating habits. This is the wrong way to think about losing weight. You first need to develop a healthy relationship with food and exercise.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#26

Post by belltaco »

It's missing a lot of context.

> The mouse that eats less but gains weight

> Unexpectedly, this increased adiposity is not caused by increased food intake. Instead, Mc3r-/- mice gain more fat per calorie of food consumed, apparently at the expense of their lean body mass. This so-called increased feed efficiency means that the mutant mice store more fat despite eating less than normal mice do, and they become obese if fed a high-fat diet. The mechanism behind these responses is unclear because the Mc3r-/- mice have normal metabolic rates, body temperatures, and thyroid function

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2330/

Also a lot of counterpoints in this article.

https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/11/a-chemical-hunger-p...

E.g.

> consider Poehlman et al. (1986), where researchers fed a group of 12 men 1,000 extra calories a day for 22 days. On average the men gained about 5 lbs (2.2 kg), but some of them actually lost weight instead.

...

> The fact that many of these are twin studies provides even more evidence against CICO. In groups of twins that are all overfed by the same amount, there is substantial variation between the different participants in general. Some people gain a lot of weight, others gain almost none. But each person gains (or loses!) about the same amount of weight as their twin. In some cases these correlations can be substantial, as high as r = 0.90. This strongly suggests that genetics plays a large role in determining how the body responds to overfeeding.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#27

Post by belltaco »

bartonfink wrote: post #5

You're not losing fat because you're too sedentary. You absolutely can outrun your fork. You just have to run a lot further than you think. Show me a fat person who runs 50 miles a week.

> One randomized controlled trial assigned overweight men and women to different amounts of exercise. More exercise did lead to more body fat loss, but even in the group exercising the most — equivalent to 20 miles (32.0 km) of jogging every week for eight months — people only lost about 7 lbs

From https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/11/a-chemical-hunger-p...

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#28

Post by throw__away7391 »

user3939382 wrote: post #11
hooverd wrote: post #3

Calories in. Calories out. What's new? Aside from the "HOLY SHITBALLS!" Gen-X branding.

People get very heated and religious about this topic so I'm hesitant to bring it up but there are strong arguments that this model is overly simplistic and that the types of food you eat are strongly related to hormonal changes that dramatically affect your metabolism and fat storage. Here's a good talk by a doctor, heavy on research, that's a decent introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKC3hiyLeRc

People get really technical trying to find excuses to keep eating when it is themselves, but when it’s your dog who is fat and the vet tells you their health is threatened you just reduce their food and don’t start digging up scientific studies to show how actually some dogs need extra treats to lose weight.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#29

Post by simmerup »

amenhotep wrote: post #24
simmerup wrote: post #4

Annoying article to read. Why swear so much? Anyway. I used to believe this. Every few months I'd flip between dieting, and not dieting (putting on weight). When dieting, I'd go on a 500 calories restriction. This meant religious calorie counting, going to bed every night hungry, and generally being grumpy constantly. Waking up in the night because I wanted some toast or something and trying to work out if I could fi…

You're still fundamentally finding success due to your calories in matching your calories out, though? It's just a match over a longer timescale. Did you feel people were telling you that have to match calories over every single 24 hour period, or something? I don't mean to disagree fundamentally, intermittent fasting seems great and it's awesome that you've found a way to keep your calorie intake controlled without…

I no longer have to worry about counting calories to maintain my weight.

I simply don’t get hungry when I don’t need food.

When calorie counting Id be eating every two hours, constantly snacking and weighing a budget of calories I could spend on food.

Sure, technically I’m adhering to some calorie count that I don’t even know what it is anymore. But my body takes care of keeping track. I’m hungry, I have a bigger portion. I’m not hungry, I don’t eat.

And the fundamental thing is when I was calorie counting and eating whatever I wanted whenever I wanted, my weight was constantly going up!

It took constant vigilance and the willingness to go long periods feeling like shit to keep my weight in check.

Now, my weight just maintains. I never thought it was possible. And the simplistic ‘a calorie is just a calorie’ noise is no longer a belief I subscribe to.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much

#30

Post by simmerup »

amenhotep wrote: post #24
simmerup wrote: post #4

Annoying article to read. Why swear so much? Anyway. I used to believe this. Every few months I'd flip between dieting, and not dieting (putting on weight). When dieting, I'd go on a 500 calories restriction. This meant religious calorie counting, going to bed every night hungry, and generally being grumpy constantly. Waking up in the night because I wanted some toast or something and trying to work out if I could fi…

You're still fundamentally finding success due to your calories in matching your calories out, though? It's just a match over a longer timescale. Did you feel people were telling you that have to match calories over every single 24 hour period, or something? I don't mean to disagree fundamentally, intermittent fasting seems great and it's awesome that you've found a way to keep your calorie intake controlled without…

Also, sorry, I think I missed out a detail that this regime only works for me if I avoid all sugary and processed food.

If I do something like eat a big chocolate bar, I’m also immediately hungry again and craving chocolate and treats and processed food.

As part of my new diet I only have whole foods like rice, beans, meat and veg. This food fills me up and interacts with my body in a fundamentally different way than processed sugary food. I don’t even miss it, until I eat some. It’s wild.

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