261–270 of 380 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In most states in the US you are not required to join the union if your workplace votes for it
You don't have to join but you usually still have to pay the dues. So you both have no vote on how that money get's spent but are also forced to give it to them anyway.
You are misinformed on the law. Free riders can't be compelled to pay dues.
I know European Union work quite differently than in the US. My experience with unions in the US like the teachers unions where conditions are still poor, pay is poor, and everything based on seniority rather than skill, you’re stuck with whatever the union negotiates regardless if you’re in the union or not …. I want nothing to do with that.
FYI, if you look at teachers $/hr, its pretty extraordinary. What people forget is that teachers are part time workers, with full time pay.
For a position where we expect people to have a 4 year degree, it’s pretty ridiculous. No one who goes into teaching pays off their student debt before they’re 40, and many don’t ever expect to do it in their lifetime without leaving for a different career.
I don't know whether we deserve a union or not. I do know that I emphatically do not want or need one. I make the amount of money I need. I have my pick of jobs if I feel undervalued by the place I work. Under no circumstances do I want to be forced to pay dues into a union that is unlikely to represent me in the company or politically. Since I have no need or desire there is no reason for me to consider the question…
> I have my pick of jobs if I feel undervalued by the place I work Definitely something that is in no danger of changing at any point in the future! What a relief for all of us! We already have ample evidence that tech giants colluded to depress the salaries of their workers. I can understand being wary of unions but to suggest they’d provide absolutely nothing feels like a failure of imagination.
For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
The irony here is that the tech companies are willing to organize into a kind of union in order to promote their interests, but the tech workers aren't.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is why I spend a lot of think wondering what could a union even do for me? I mean the same thing it does for Tom Cruise. You're really thinking about this the wrong way. Companies all the time join trade groups and pay membership fees to coordinate their efforts. Are you going to argue that companies are making a fiscally irresponsible decision? A union is strictly the same thing as a trade group except its me…
Tom Cruise is in an industry where he can be shut out at any given moment and there's only like 5 employers. How does that match tech? FAANG pays outrageously compared to regular dev jobs, but regular devs jobs are still pay absurdly high for a job that has a lot of comfort. This is nothing like average actor. So for me, average dev, what is a union doing for me? What can a union offer me that I don't currently get?…
[Citation Needed]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_production_compan...
Look, you're really just a worse paid Tom Cruise. I'm sorry you can't see this.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In most states in the US you are not required to join the union if your workplace votes for it
But you can't form a union if they vote against it, which is why you are here arguing with people. So we here we have clear proof that even if you spend years arguing it doesn't necessarily lead to the democratic results you want. Individual bargaining however seems to work very well, lots of people get what they want that way much faster and easier than any democratic process. And that is why people vote to not have…
Yes, this is how democracy works in general. You don't get everything (or necessarily anything) you want
Personally the only thing that would really make me quit is if they tried to make me go hybrid or back to the office in any way. My workplace is small (10 engineers) and so unionizing based on that could be pretty easy, but it would be easier for me to quit and find a new job that does do remote
I see no reason or benefit to unionizing tech workers.
It’s absolutely incredible to me how much animosity unions have in the US and how self defeating the typical programmers attitude is (maybe this is just selection bias for HN?) — and I say this as someone who’s definitely not a laborer. But if I was one, I would hope I wouldn’t vote against my own class interests like it appears developers often do. Luckily, even speaking openly against my own interests here is zero…
Unions don't have to be that way, but all the examples I have of unions are places I would not want to work. Thus why would I want a union in my job?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I make the amount of money I need. It's not just about money. Working conditions are equally important. Consider when companies demand that everyone RTO after promising permanent WFH. Consider when companies rescind offer letters after you've already quit your old job. Consider mass layoffs and severance. I think about how so many engineers need to take a long, unpaid break from work after leaving their jobs, becau…
Great but for those of us who have better than adequate working conditions and enough money, please explain why we "deserve a union". Reading through this interview and thread, I notice how often this debate comes down to a sense of agency. You write about programmers being "burned out by their employer". But I would say that people experience burnout when they fail to set boundaries. Working to the point where your…
It's interesting that the manager and/or employer has no apparent agency here.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to join but you usually still have to pay the dues. So you both have no vote on how that money get's spent but are also forced to give it to them anyway.
You don't have to join but you usually still have to pay the dues. You are misinformed on the law. Free riders can't be compelled to pay dues.
California, Washington and New York are forced union states, most developers don't work in right to work states.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great but for those of us who have better than adequate working conditions and enough money, please explain why we "deserve a union". Reading through this interview and thread, I notice how often this debate comes down to a sense of agency. You write about programmers being "burned out by their employer". But I would say that people experience burnout when they fail to set boundaries. Working to the point where your…
> Working to the point where your mental health suffers is your fault: it's your responsbility to establish healthy boundaries or, failing at that, quit. It's interesting that the manager and/or employer has no apparent agency here.