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The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

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Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#51

Post by raverbashing »

jacobsimon wrote: post #31
buildsjets wrote: post #9

The fact that phenylepherine is ineffective is quite old and has been common knowledge for many years. What is news is that the FDA is finally acknowledging it. I've maintained my own reserve of pseudoephedrine for years. https://gizmodo.com/report-many-over-the-counter-decongestan... https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2015/10/26/the-pop... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089555-breaking-bad-sn...

I just came here to say that I actually find phenylephrine nasal spray quite effective - but I use it for a different use case: stopping nosebleeds quickly. It's quite effective at that and came recommended by an ENT, so I do believe it's an effective vasoconstrictor when applied locally and I'm glad it's available.

As per the article, you would likely be correct

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#52

Post by jtriangle »

adriand wrote: post #16
greatpostman wrote: post #5

Probably will get downvoted for this, but a bunch of my family members are pharmacists. Their quiet opinion is that most pharmaceuticals don’t work. Even the ones that are thought effective. The data is anecdotal, but is over 15 years of watching people come in for prescriptions. The other aspect, is they say it’s mind boggling to see what kind of drugs people are on.

It’s really difficult to untangle the placebo and nocebo effects. I was recently surprised to learn there are studies showing placebos can be effective even when people are told they are taking a placebo. Ie literally telling people, “take this pill every day, but please understand it’s a placebo and has no active ingredients whatsoever”. And yet, their symptoms improve. The theory is that the subconscious mind acts…

You're missing the part where they told participants what the placebo effect was, and that taking the placebo would make them feel better in spite of it having no active ingredients, and it did indeed do so.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#53

Post by dragonwriter »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #10

phenylepherine is the otc version of pseudoephedrine, what Sudafed was originally created with. If you need Sudafed that works, go to the phamacist and ask for "real sudafed". You might have to scan your ID if you live in certain states and you actually need a Rx if you're in Oregon (lol), but for most free states you're good to just purchase it at the counter.

> You might have to scan your ID if you live in certain states

The “certain states” involved being “the United States” since 2006, unless you are buying a “single sales package” with less than 60mg of pseudoephedrine [0] (which is the dose in two Sudafed caplets [1].)

[0] https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requi...

[1] https://www.sudafed.com/products/sudafed-sinus-congestion

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#54

Post by blobbers »

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-panel-says-co... -- "Phenylephrine — found in drugs including Sudafed PE, Vicks Nyquil Sinex Nighttime Sinus Relief and Benadryl Allergy Plus Congestion — is the most popular oral decongestant in the United States, generating almost $1.8 billion in sales last year, according to data presented Monday by FDA officials."

* Wasting peoples time and money while consuming their $.

* key part is consuming their $.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#55

Post by ctoth »

jawns wrote: post #33

I laughed out loud when I read about the lobbyists who are trying to keep phenylephrine from being taken off store shelves. In one article about the FDA panel vote, a lobbyist said that most consumers hate the alternatives -- nasal sprays because of the discomfort and pseudoephedrine because it's stored behind the pharmacy counter -- and so depriving them of a hassle-free option is anti-consumer. The fact that the ha…

Unfortunately, this is the actual logic which will be used to justify it staying on shelves.

> The decongestant is in at least 250 products that were worth nearly $1.8 billion in sales last year, according to an agency presentation.

Look those yachts aren't gonna buy themselves.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#56

Post by dragonwriter »

scarface_74 wrote: post #32
Kirby64 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psuedophedrine requires an ID to purchase and must be kept behind the counter in any state in the US. It's a federal requirement. Stores are also required to keep a record of purchases for 2 years. If you were able to purchase Sudafed without having someone get it from the back or out of some locked cabinet, and also hand over your ID, it wasn't psuedophedrine.

He said “at the counter”.

He said “you might have to scan your ID in certain states”; the ID and logbook requirements for a purchase of anything but a “single sales package” (basically, 2 Sudafed) of pseudoephedrine is a federal requirement applying to every US state and territory.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#57

Post by GuB-42 »

ShamelessC wrote: post #26
greatpostman wrote: post #5

Probably will get downvoted for this, but a bunch of my family members are pharmacists. Their quiet opinion is that most pharmaceuticals don’t work. Even the ones that are thought effective. The data is anecdotal, but is over 15 years of watching people come in for prescriptions. The other aspect, is they say it’s mind boggling to see what kind of drugs people are on.

This is a really bad take. I hope you or your family members reconsider. Also maybe they shouldn't hold negative judgemental views on the customers that make their job possible?

This is also a bad take.

GP specifically mentioned prescriptions, so the customer/patient is not at fault here, if there is a judgment here, it is toward the doctors. And just because something earns you money doesn't mean it is above criticism.

I still don't share GP's opinion in that most medicine don't work. I think some don't work, and some is misused or used preemptively, therefore showing no effect. And I am also dubious about a lot of comfort medicine, but for most people I know who are under proper prescription, it is obvious that it works, it includes psychatric medicine.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#59

Post by samtheprogram »

mullingitover wrote: post #21

I always thought it was pretty brazen of them to openly label their cold medicine as 'placebo effect' (pretty sure that's what the 'PE' stands for).

I always thought it was for Phenyl-Ephrine, but this is so funny/perfect I will use this when explaining to people to not buy Sudafed unless it's behind the counter.

Re: The Uselessness of Phenylephrine (2022)

#60

Post by jimmaswell »

anamexis wrote: post #39
cheald wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I've known that phenylepherine is worthless for a long while, and just make it a point to buy a pack of the real stuff every 6 months or so, so that I always have it on hand when I need it. In my state, it's controlled - you have to get it from a pharmacist (though you can do so without a prescription) - they take your driver's license and don't allow you to purchase it too often.

That is a US federal law (the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005)

And now we've got a fentanyl epidemic filling the void and even more power handed to Mexican cartels since meth got harder to produce domestically. Drugs continue to win the war on drugs.
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