Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#21

Post by mytailorisrich » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:05 AM UTC

danw1979 wrote: post #17

Pet_Ant wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An article shared recently said that road damage is weight^4. Make a car tax based on vehicle weight and the market takes care of itself. For the right classes (such as wheelchair accessible) it can be a tax write-off.

This is a great idea and would handily deal with the escalating “momentum war” between selfish drivers who buy the biggest, heaviest vehicle they can afford in order to be safer than their counterparts in a collision. I’d propose we make the tax highly non-linear too…

As a friend od mine recently discovered, Range Rovers have an airbag under the bonnet that pops up in case of frontal collision, presumably to protect pedestrians.

They hit a deer on a country road and that airbag caused £6,000 of damage to the car...

Who's laughing now? ;)

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#22

Post by RNAlfons » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:07 AM UTC

stuaxo wrote: post #11

mytailorisrich wrote: post #8

The main cause of heavier new cars is the weight of the batteries in EVs. If we're all going to get EVs, we're all going to put heavier cars on the road... Regarding size, my experience of UK roads and parking spaces is that the biggest issue is indeed the increased width of cars. In any case wider roads should be built if only to accomodate decent cycle lanes, which is also something touted as the way forward.

All cars have got bigger, some are just monsters in size that are the size of an older van.

I've also seen some kind of mad anti-movement recently here in Germany.

People started buying Pick-Ups. Huge US-style Pick-Ups...

I live in a big city here and seeing a single Pick-Up was something very special up until a few years ago. Now it seems it became a symbol of rebellion against the movement to car-alternatives and expansion of bike infrastructure.

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#23

Post by mytailorisrich » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:08 AM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #20

mytailorisrich wrote: post #8

The main cause of heavier new cars is the weight of the batteries in EVs. If we're all going to get EVs, we're all going to put heavier cars on the road... Regarding size, my experience of UK roads and parking spaces is that the biggest issue is indeed the increased width of cars. In any case wider roads should be built if only to accomodate decent cycle lanes, which is also something touted as the way forward.

Building wider roads in the UK is going to be tricky. A lot of roads have no room to grow without knocking down the houses lining them. Maybe the UK needs less roads?

Of course it's very difficult to impossible to widen existing roads. But nothing prevent building wider new roads... which isn't done because priority is actually to save as much money as possible instead of delivering good, future-proof, infrastructure.

You can't have fewer roads in a country whose population grows by hundreds of thousands every year...

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#24

Post by arethuza » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:09 AM UTC

secretsatan wrote: post #19

mytailorisrich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parking issues are caused by number of vehicles on the road and lack of planning. Many roads in the UK are very narrow with narrow pavements: There is no space to 'properly' park even if all cars are small-ish. I have rarely seen roads with parked cars blocking half the road in Europe (at least in France) whereas this is common here in the UK.

I'm not sure narrow roads in old cities are due to lack of planning, they didn't have crystal balls

And some of the "planning" that was done to make our cities car friendly was absolutely horrific - look at what someone thought was a good idea for Edinburgh:

https://www.gcat.org.uk/blog/?p=682

Edit: thankfully never built!

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#25

Post by EliRivers » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:09 AM UTC

The current annual car tax in the UK is a freaky thing.

For cars registered before March 2001, it's a payment based on engine size (smaller or larger than 1.55 litres); couldn't tell if that's aimed at perceived wealth, pollution, or just leftover because that's how it was back when those cars were new.

March 2001 to March 2017, it's a payment based on CO2 emissions. Pollution based.

April 2017 to present day, it's a payment in the first year based on CO2 emissions, and each year after that a fixed rate based on fuel type only, EXCEPT that if the list price was over 40000 GBP in which case it's a bit higher for the 2nd to 6th years only. So pollution based for the first year, and then a short period of perceived wealth based, and then just a poll tax.

Come on UK, pick one! Are we taxing this based on pollution, apparent wealth or just plain poll?

Oh yes, also; if your vehicle was registered in 1983 or earlier, you can register it as exempt from this tax entirely. A UK nod to encourage classic car enthusiasts and people who are just really good at car maintenance, I guess!

It changes every so often. There was a time when this annual tax had nothing to do with CO2 emissions; that was judged to then be something that should be discouraged by means of this tax, so it changed.

If weight of vehicle is now a meaningful factor, an obvious step is to make this tax higher for heavier vehicles.

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#26

Post by mytailorisrich » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:10 AM UTC

secretsatan wrote: post #19

mytailorisrich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parking issues are caused by number of vehicles on the road and lack of planning. Many roads in the UK are very narrow with narrow pavements: There is no space to 'properly' park even if all cars are small-ish. I have rarely seen roads with parked cars blocking half the road in Europe (at least in France) whereas this is common here in the UK.

I'm not sure narrow roads in old cities are due to lack of planning, they didn't have crystal balls

Narrow roads are not only found in old cities... They are everywhere.

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#27

Post by monooso » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:17 AM UTC

> Car designer Chris Longmore... blames safety legislation for the dramatic increase in size since the 1990s.

This doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

For example, the 2022 Toyota Aygo X has a 4 star NCAP safety rating (out of a possible 5) [1], and is about the same size as the original 1970s VW Golf [2].

[1] https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/Toyota/Aygo%20X/46259

[2] https://www.automobiledimension.com/model/toyota/aygo-x

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#28

Post by gampleman » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:18 AM UTC

I haven't read the article (paywall), but does it explain why roads in the UK are specifically worse than elsewhere in Europe? Like I've driven this year in Scotland, Czechia and Cyprus and despite constant roadworks in Scotland the road quality is so much worse its not even a contest. Why? At least visually it seems like the same sort of cars one sees driving around (although there may be fewer older cars in the UK, due to rust issues and strict MOT requirements...)

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#29

Post by beachy » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:20 AM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #25

The current annual car tax in the UK is a freaky thing. For cars registered before March 2001, it's a payment based on engine size (smaller or larger than 1.55 litres); couldn't tell if that's aimed at perceived wealth, pollution, or just leftover because that's how it was back when those cars were new. March 2001 to March 2017, it's a payment based on CO2 emissions. Pollution based. April 2017 to present day, it's a…

I'm not familiar with the UK tax but here in NZ, new car tax has become a political football. The current opposition party tagged it the "Ute tax", which seems to have resonated with the more easily outraged members of society and those who crowd city streets with their stupidly large trucks for school drop-off.

I anticipate politics-driven tinkering with it from here on in. Perhaps we will look like the UK after a few more political cycles.

Re: Britain's roads can't keep up with our cars

#30

Post by orwin » Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 9:20 AM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #23

marcus_holmes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building wider roads in the UK is going to be tricky. A lot of roads have no room to grow without knocking down the houses lining them. Maybe the UK needs less roads?

Of course it's very difficult to impossible to widen existing roads. But nothing prevent building wider new roads... which isn't done because priority is actually to save as much money as possible instead of delivering good, future-proof, infrastructure. You can't have fewer roads in a country whose population grows by hundreds of thousands every year...

You can. Paris have less roads (or rather has closed roads to cars) and upped the public transit system frequency in the area despite a small population augmentation. I know one person living in the area, the QOL is now way, way higher.