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Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

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Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#62
I think for a language to be disliked it should be in one of the following categories:

1) First category is where you are forced to use it, and it is easy enough to get started in. For these languages the programmer base is big enough for the mandatory awkward features of the language be stumbled onto frequently enough to gather all the hate, and also big enough for the language hating to become a pop culture. Javascript, Java, Objective C, Visual Basic, PHP are languages in this category.

2) The second category is where you are forced to use it, but the language takes a long time to master, there are so many rules to learn and practice that unless you have spent 10 years coding in these languages, you cannot call yourself an expert. The hate for these languages is a different kind of hate and it spawns from the programmer's frustration to conquer the language completely. It's anybody's guess that C++ is the language I am talking about.

3) The third category is where you are forced to use it, and learning the language is just an annoyance mainly because it is just a different syntax for a language you have already learnt, and the learning effort that you put in is not commensurately rewarded by expanding your mind by introducing you to new ideas in programming. Ruby (does not add anything to Python), C# (does not add anything to Java), Coffeescript (does not add anything to Javascript) are such examples.

One constant across language-hating is that the programmers are forced to use them, either because their jobs require it (Java, C++, Visual Basic), or it serves a niche where there is (was) no equivalent (C++, PHP, Ruby on Rails, C#, Javascript, Objective C).

Then there are languages like C and Python, which are so freaking awesome, groundbreaking, and so much valuable for their niches that they just simply cannot be hated.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#63
post #18

Javascript because I just don't have the choice to not use it.

You have to stop worrying and learn to love the bomb ;p In all seriousness, I feel that a lot of people(me included) go through a period of hate for javascript until they find that it's actually has some impressive expressiveness using very small set of things.

I definitely have a very strong love / hate relationship with javascript. On one hand, you can be very expressive with Javascript and it absolutely can be an incredibly flexible language with a lot of power.

On the other hand, there's a LOT of warts in the language. Random reserved words like 'class' that don't even fit the language's approach, variable scoping that can very easily bite you in the ass if you don't know what you're doing, optional line terminators that seemingly exist for no reason other than to create bugs, stuff that should be avoided at all costs like 'with'. And that's just scratching the surface.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#64

I don't expect that the responses to this will be enlightening. In fact, I can predict right now that the winner of this poll will be the most commonly-used language which isn't widely considered to be "nice". Depending on the precise demographics of this site, that's either going to be Java, C++ or Javascript, despite the fact that there are clearly worse languages out there (Fortran, COBOL, Brainfuck...) The reason…

I refute that Fortran is axiomatically worse than Java. I've spent a few years working in each, so I got to know them decently well.

Fortran is like C with great math support; that is to say, C is like Fortran with great systems facilities. In each language's domain, it is more expressive and more performant than Java. Outside its domain, you don't want a bad programmer going near it for too long, but you can absolutely still get things done.

On the other hand, Java fills me with such dread that I would write a post defending Fortran just to kick it in the nuts.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#65

Easily C# and Java, I don't think the virtual machine adds anything other than another abstraction layer to get in the way. Just because code is native doesn't mean you can't have all sorts of built in bounds checking to ensure safety, but when you're in a VM, taking off the training wheels when you need to actually make shit fast is such a pain. I especially don't understand the point of a VM like the CLR that only…

I work in C# quite a few days a week, and I share your pair regarding the simplest thing. We have a couple of astronaut architects on the team (both of whom are actually good programmers, but they tend to get starry-eyed about MS frameworks and patterns), and I have trouble understanding why even a relatively "simple" web application requires nearly 30 Visual Studio projects.

Personally, I don't mind C# much (I do work at an MS-centric shop), but some of the baggage that comes along with the .NET framework can get bothersome.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#66
I was kind of expected that the Java will win this, but I think this is clearly misleading. Java is an OK language IMO, its just the open source and j2ee part are bad. But if you let the assumptions which come from sun, oracle and other j2ee pushers, the language is very easy and capable of working with. For instance - the common "wisdom" is to use getter and setter. However if you just declare all your fields as public the code becomes much less verbose and usable. If you are determined to have the work done, Java will do it as fine as any other language and will be very fast and maintainable.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#67

I don't expect that the responses to this will be enlightening. In fact, I can predict right now that the winner of this poll will be the most commonly-used language which isn't widely considered to be "nice". Depending on the precise demographics of this site, that's either going to be Java, C++ or Javascript, despite the fact that there are clearly worse languages out there (Fortran, COBOL, Brainfuck...) The reason…

You can't ignore context. Fortran is a very strong language for a specific application - you can't compare it to Javascript.

Delphi was a framework using Pascal. It was a revolution at the time - and you can see it's influence in many software tools available today.

You could argue that the current SQL/Rails API/JSON/Backbone/JQuery/CoffeeScript/HTML/CSS abomination we've created could be improved or replaced with something as disruptive as Delphi was at the time.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#68

I think for a language to be disliked it should be in one of the following categories: 1) First category is where you are forced to use it, and it is easy enough to get started in. For these languages the programmer base is big enough for the mandatory awkward features of the language be stumbled onto frequently enough to gather all the hate, and also big enough for the language hating to become a pop culture. Javasc…

1. I think it's possible to have a hatred of C++ that doesn't stem from a lack of understanding of the language. I think the C++ FQA (http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/) addresses a lot of the dislike people have with C++ that has nothing to do with ignorance of the language.

2. Saying that C# doesn't add anything to Java isn't even a simplification, it's flat out wrong. That argument may have been slightly valid in the C# 1.0 days (although there were quite a few differences like auto-boxing, properties, and pointer support), but the languages have diverged significantly, and modern C# code using lambdas, LINQ, and dynamic variables is signficantly different from Java.

Similarly, CoffeeScript and Javascript are massively different languages - the fact that CoffeeScript compiles down to Javascript doesn't mean the languages are similar, any more than saying Clojure and Java are practically the same since they both compile down to the JVM.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#69

I think for a language to be disliked it should be in one of the following categories: 1) First category is where you are forced to use it, and it is easy enough to get started in. For these languages the programmer base is big enough for the mandatory awkward features of the language be stumbled onto frequently enough to gather all the hate, and also big enough for the language hating to become a pop culture. Javasc…

I hate Python with a passion I cannot express or explain.

Re: Poll: What's Your Most Disliked Programming Language?

#70
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to stop worrying and learn to love the bomb ;p In all seriousness, I feel that a lot of people(me included) go through a period of hate for javascript until they find that it's actually has some impressive expressiveness using very small set of things.

You must be right. It is like I still have the stigma of the early days of Javascript in the browser. I do mainly PHP so it's not like I can't overcome bad design. I routinely try to get a fresh perspective of JS but it does little. I praise jQuery everyday though.

Get a hold of Douglas Crockford's 'JavaScript: The Good Parts' book. JS is so incredibly pervasive you're going to have to put up with it, so you may as well see if you can get along with the nice features like closures, functions as first class objects and prototypal inheritance.
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