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Credit card debt collection

bitsaboutmoney.com

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Re: Credit card debt collection

#151

Post by adev_ »

unmole wrote: post #125
adev_ wrote: post #91

It might be a very European view to the problem but: Why does the American government does even tolerate this credit card garbage business in the first place ? We are in the 21th century. Most payment can be validated electronically and processed under 200ms. I can pay something with my phone and get money taken directly from my bank account within seconds. There is absolutely no need of Credit Cards where Debit Card…

> It might be a very European view to the problem but: Why does the American government does even tolerate this credit card garbage business in the first place ? TIL: Credit cards are banned in Europe. /s

> TIL: Credit cards are banned in Europe. /s

They are not banned. They are heavily regulated in many European countries.

In several of them:

- Cashback systems are simply banned.

- Credit card are by default Debit Card. The credit option need to be opt-in.

- Credit Card payments spread over several months are discouraged or simply banned by default.

Credit cards are also much more rare.

With an average of ~1 Credit Card per inhabitant in some countries. Where the US average is ~4 Credit Card per inhabitant.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#152

Post by whatshisface »

eru wrote: post #101
repiret wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little over a decade ago I knew a young adult in the US that had a pretty rough life and I was trying to help her get back on her feet. When you’re homeless, it’s hard to get mail, and hard to keep your stuff; going from nothing to your standard documents is tricky. To get your birth certificate, you need to write a check to the state at some address where you’ll be able to receive mail in 2-4 weeks. Once you have…

> That’s important to keep in mind when you’re thinking about welfare bureaucracy or voter ID laws or anything like that. Amen to that. Though luckily while it's huge problem for the former, it doesn't matter for the latter. (Because individuals by and large don't benefit from being able to vote. Voting is at best something altruistic, individuals do out of civic duty.)

You will be in for a surprise to find out what happens when only the people from a restricted demographic are able to, altruistically, vote. :-)

Re: Credit card debt collection

#153

Post by nradov »

nico wrote: post #60
eru wrote: post #36

> I will bet you that, in practice, they simply avoid collecting against anyone who demonstrates ability and financial resources to enforce their rights. This is one for the history books of borked equilibriums. We devoted substantial efforts to pro-consumer legislation to address abuse of (mostly) poor people. We gated redress behind labor that is abundantly available in the professional managerial class and scarce…

This is the same with tax collection in the US (seen different versions of this done by IRS, California’s BOE and SF treasury) It goes something like this: they send you a scary looking letter telling you there’s something off about your taxes, you then need to call them (because they don’t do email and mailing anything will go over the time limit to comply), then they tell you more in detail what the problem is and…

Perhaps you have had a different experience but the IRS has always been polite and helpful in the few cases where I had income tax disputes. The key is to follow the process instead of trying to argue with bureaucrats or treat them as enemies.

Compliance deadlines are measured in months. You have plenty of time to mail responses. Usually they'll put a hold on collection activities while you have a dispute pending.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#154

Post by calfuris »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #108
owenmarshall wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes me as the same as saying “but the homeless person might take my $5 to buy whiskey instead of a hot meal.” Or, possibly more apropos to your example, “how do I know my medical debt relief payment goes to someone who truly Deserves It because of bad luck and not someone whose poor diet and exercise habits lead to their stroke?” The system is designed to turn bad choices into bad luck - and the opposite - a…

You’ve misread the context so this insult is really out of place. GP is referring to credit card debt, not medical debt.

I don't think that there was any misreading there. GP is applying GGP's logic to a different kind of debt to make a point.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#155

Post by rconti »

bradleybuda wrote: post #113
tptacek wrote: post #28

There's a point in this article where Patrick suggests you Google "litigious debtor scrub" to confirm a point he's making, and when you get to that point --- not before --- I highly recommend doing the search and reading some of the links, because they're pretty funny.

Amazing: https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.guidebook.com/upload/z5nhuRkp...

"Kicking Them When You Have Them Down"

wow.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#156

Post by pavlov »

anovikov wrote: post #115
pavlov wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing productive in the system creating that output. It’s just money redistributed from fees paid by the merchants and other customers. It’s a bit like a casino: somebody can get lucky and get out more money than they’re paying, but most don’t. And the house (Visa/MC/Amex) always wins.

Moreover, it's an inequality engine. Get money from those who can't pay their bills (poor - they are punished bad back-breaking late fees and penalties) to those who can (middle class and the rich who usually pay their cards off in full every month so never pay any interest, and get cashbacks and bonuses/airline miles/etc).

A lot of the American consumer finance infrastructure seems to be set up like a regressive tax on poor people who can’t avoid using the system.

If you don’t have money, banks will charge you $15 / month for a basic checking account, plus $50 overdraft fees if you make the slightest mistake in balancing the account (or if a company makes a fraudulent charge on your account — also dismayingly easy in the US system).

If you have any reasonable income they start waiving the fees, and beyond that they’ll shower you with offers for credit card rewards and other benefits effectively paid from the massive windfall the banks and other companies collect from the poor.

The market isn’t solving this, so there should be more regulation and very tight caps on these various fees. A bank account shouldn’t cost more than $2 / month. An overdraft shouldn’t be possible unless you opt in to a loan facility.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#157

Post by throwaway2037 »

acyou wrote: post #97
eru wrote: post #36

> I will bet you that, in practice, they simply avoid collecting against anyone who demonstrates ability and financial resources to enforce their rights. This is one for the history books of borked equilibriums. We devoted substantial efforts to pro-consumer legislation to address abuse of (mostly) poor people. We gated redress behind labor that is abundantly available in the professional managerial class and scarce…

Singapore has many systems, rules and laws that would not and could not work elsewhere. It's great that it works for them, but it doesn't work in the USA, or most other countries. I will point out that they are an affluent, monocultural, somewhat xenophobic, authoritarian and borderline fascist city-state.

Singapore is monocultural? Please explain.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#158

Post by OrvalWintermute »

bloaf wrote: post #49
doubleg72 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Let me describe the situation the other person is talking about, with two examples that happened to me in the past year. 1. I scheduled a colonoscopy with a hospital. They charged me $300 for the procedure, which I paid up front. Everything went smoothly and there were no delays, complications, or followups. A week later they sent me a bill for over $1k. They had not applied my $300 payment towards the total. They ha…

> Your characterization is ignorant of how scummy medical billing actually is.

Concur completely. I once lived in a state where "Balance billing" was illegal, yet despite having a bluechip insurance plan, seeing some physicians in-network AND paying the co-pay at the same time, I could always count on being balance billed.

GRRRR. Talk about a seriously ticked off customer. Given what I know about medical billing though, I would not be surprised to hear that insurance companies were likewise trying to bilk the practices, forcing these shady responses (My wife's practice has an in-network private practice model, but insurers refuse to accept the billing rates they agreed to as a part of contract with the practice, and they play an intentional game of denials after previous authorizations, or, they intentionally send patients checks which the PTs go and cash, and fail to reimburse the practice)

Re: Credit card debt collection

#159

Post by nologic01 »

It is in this domain, of broken promises and broken people that you can establish what a society is really made of. Graeber's Debt is obligatory reading (alas not easy to read) if you want to dig into the painful history of debt relations between humans.

The post provides excellent insights into the odious side of consumer finance. It feels like a follow up with ideas about reform would not be wasted effort: Once this domain meets the odious side of tech (uncontrolled data collection, tracking etc) the toxicity will grow exponentially.

Re: Credit card debt collection

#160

Post by patmcc »

I always enjoy patio11's writing, and I think a bit part is he writes as if the reader is intelligent but not knowledgeable about the topic, which is the best way to teach. The other three permutations of those bools are much more common.
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