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Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

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Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#91

Post by TheProTip »

thecodrr wrote: post #42

I don't think that's true. We have been using ASP .NET Core + SignalR for everything in Notesnook[0]. It has great performance, libraries for everything out there, very good ergonomics, and a mature ecosystem. I know you can probably get more performance out of Rust or Go but I don't think rq/s benchmarks really hold up in reality. If you are running a startup, you'd probably see 1 to 2 rq/s unless you become viral.…

Very cool.

You may find this OSS .Net project I released recently interesting: https://github.com/stepwisehq/prosemirror-dotnet .

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#92

Post by AlecSchueler »

jodrellblank wrote: post #85
AlecSchueler wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The development for a language like python happens entirely in public though, and is driven by consensus.

https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang - "The official repo for the design of the C# programming language" that's in public.

Infront of the public, yes, but it says you need to be invited by someone from their team to participate yourself, compare that with the python process.

There's a distinction to be made between doing something in public and something being done by the public.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#93

Post by plusmax1 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #46
edgyquant wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why answer my question with the opposite question? What reasons do we have for specifically wanting to use a microsoft controlled language?

I would just like to understand specific threats or issues with using C# as a language. I've used it for 20 years at this point without issue and the latest IEEE language survey shows that it remains one of the top languages[0]; I'm wondering if you have some insight into why .NET and C# are a bad choice for engineering teams that I've somehow overlooked in my 20 years of working with it. It sounds like your argument…

This is a good list. I really feel it's a very good platform and just a very pleasant environment to work with. I guess I'm a "fanboy" as someone else on this thread said, but I became one because I had to use it for a job and I found out how solid it was and how much I enjoyed tinkering with it.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#94

Post by plusmax1 »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #84

More and more recently I have been seeing C#/.NET show up in job listings that aren't just 10,000+ employee enterprise companies. I think it has been becoming more popular.

And rightfully so, dotnet nowadays is really a pleasant environment to work with. Fast, good language(s), good libraries, good dev experience and cross platform. Most criticism I see on threads like this is either based on outdated perceptions or on Microsoft hate.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#95

Post by tester756 »

xtracto wrote: post #53
INTPenis wrote: post #20

As a lifetime Linux user, I think it's obvious. A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, which can best be done with open and freely available tools. When I'm in the zone, my creativity is flowing, the last thing I need is to register on some website, or to purchase a license.

I've been in the rodeo for 20 years now. I started as a Jr dev in a Microsoft based software company that had some kind of M$ certification which gave us all the MSDN CDs. I was the first C# .Net programmer when I joined as C# had just been introduced and I loved learning it at uni as an alternative to ugly Java. The two things that "bit" me all these years is that, all "free" stuff given by Microsoft was just "hooks…

>Suddenly you need IIS and sqlserver windows and all the expensive stack.

How do you even imagine it could work?

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#96

Post by naasking »

conor- wrote: post #77
naasking wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, which can best be done with open and freely available tools. C# tooling is open and freely available. The source for the compiler and tools are all on github and the tools are all available free to download and use.

The tooling is not entirely open or freely available. If you, for e.g., want to debug you have to use MS tooling.[0] You also can't use VSCodium because only the MS built/distributed version of VSCode contains the proprietary binary blobs necessary to debug C# (which also means you're forced into the aggressive telemetry and other data collection built into the non-open source distribution of VSCode). They've also ta…

Those links both show the tooling is freely available, and for the core debugging interface, there are open source implementations as documented at those links as well. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#97

Post by qingcharles »

tester756 wrote: post #90
phillipcarter wrote: post #70

When I joined the .NET team in 2015, we were rounding out the first arc of the journey to be truly cross-platform, and June of 2016 released a 1.0. It was an absolute mess of a release, but it actually happened. You can bet your ass that "go after startups" was a part of the strategy - in my first team meeting we literally all read a blog post about how Go was picked over C# at Parse. I'm sure our execution of that s…

>Every single year I'd speak with a skeptic and they'd have a "reason" not to use .NET that wasn't true. Having to argue with people about how well dotnet runs on Linux after having it deployed on Linux for 6-7 years sucks as hell

What are the issues you have with it? I'm running MS' Kestrel web server executing C# web code and it's been great for me.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#99

Post by jmaker »

marcosdumay wrote: post #72
easton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TypeScript is also controlled by MS and that has tons of community support. Sure, if things got evil someone would fork/reimplement, but right now Microsoft decides how the language goes for the most part. And for writing C# on the server, the major benefit is that Microsoft has a batteries included web framework that’s very battle tested. There’s at least one good first party answer for every problem (auth, database…

But there is a very compelling reason to use TypeScript. There isn't one for C#. (And, oh man, that batteries included battle tested framework is a stinky pile of trash. The language itself is ok, but the framework uses every misguided trend somebody at MS thought as cool, has no documentation of them, and implements half of them in some way that only that person thought about. There is a passable "web framework" ins…

This is kinda totally off. You could say that about Spring and Pivotal/Tanzu/VMware or even Quarkus and Red Hat, or just IBM. In my experience though those words apply best to much of the Python and Rust landscape. You could say much more about the Node landscape. But .NET and ASP? Really? Could you substantiate?

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#100

Post by jmaker »

wryanzimmerman wrote: post #79
easton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TypeScript is also controlled by MS and that has tons of community support. Sure, if things got evil someone would fork/reimplement, but right now Microsoft decides how the language goes for the most part. And for writing C# on the server, the major benefit is that Microsoft has a batteries included web framework that’s very battle tested. There’s at least one good first party answer for every problem (auth, database…

If you had to, you could go from typescript to JavaScript overnight in a large project, whereas no similar escape hatch exists for C#. As for the frontend, you have to have so JavaScript somewhere, it’s unavoidable, so typescript is just a way to make the inevitable more palatable.

How is the first paragraph significant or even relevant? What scenario are you contemplating to hedge against?

And there are other frontend options that go without any JS on your side, so it’s quite avoidable. In most cases it’s impractical to avoid JS for the browser target. But the browser is not the only UI target for many apps.

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