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You're barely managing

barely-managing.bearblog.dev

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Re: You're barely managing

#71

Post by tuckerconnelly »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #36
angarg12 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of literature in management (definitely in the tech sector) is essentially a long form opinion of a single person. I personally only started to take more seriously the writing of people who a) have been managing for a long while successfully, and b) regularly sync up with other managers so that their pieces aren't a sample size of 1.

Because I apparently have an infinite appetite for masochism: do you have any recommendations for authors you've read and liked?

I’m not the OP, but here’s my reading list: https://tuckerconnelly.com/management-leadership

Re: You're barely managing

#72

Post by pesfandiar »

zingababba wrote: post #15
danielvaughn wrote: post #6

I began my first management role a few years ago (through the "successor" path outlined in the article). My manager left for another company, and since I'd been with the team for 4 years at that point, I was asked if I wanted to take over. I agreed, not realizing how much of a shift it was. It's an entirely different profession, and it's made me wonder how realistic the notion of an Engineering Manager is. It's sort…

I've had the misfortune on being on a highly technical team where a thoroughly business minded manager was hired. Most of the team including myself was gone within 6 months. Absolute disaster.

But did the assembly line become more efficient?

Re: You're barely managing

#73

Post by bluGill »

tayo42 wrote: post #10
danielvaughn wrote: post #6

I began my first management role a few years ago (through the "successor" path outlined in the article). My manager left for another company, and since I'd been with the team for 4 years at that point, I was asked if I wanted to take over. I agreed, not realizing how much of a shift it was. It's an entirely different profession, and it's made me wonder how realistic the notion of an Engineering Manager is. It's sort…

> who actually went to business school for management. Are these actually good? Sometimes I feel like education has such a large disconnect from reality. Especially true in corporate fields. There is also the meme of MBAs showing up and ruining everything. I also went to business school for undergrad, idk if any of it is useful. though it was a while ago now

Sometimes. The best manager I've had was business trained with no technical background at all. However I've had many very bad managers who didn't have a technical background.

Note that I don't think MBA really gives someone the right background to be a good people manager.

Re: You're barely managing

#74

Post by hotnfresh »

danielvaughn wrote: post #9
SassyGrapefruit wrote: post #3

Most people just aren't cut out for it. To be a good manager you need to .... 1. Be willing to be wrong a lot and admit it 2. Show vulnerablility 3. Deal with constant setbacks and disappoinment Most people get the reigns and are suprised to find out its actually a thing nobody wants. Like being a social worker.

I was writing up a huge list of other things you need as well, but I'll just say that being a manager was a massive eye-opener for me. Prior to that, I thought I was doing all the work and didn't think my manager was doing very much. I was very, very wrong. But what's great about the experience is that you come to understand how valuable a good manager is, and how to be a more effective IC.

Like how DMing an RPG campaign teaches you to be a better player.

Re: You're barely managing

#75

Post by tfehring »

tayo42 wrote: post #10
danielvaughn wrote: post #6

I began my first management role a few years ago (through the "successor" path outlined in the article). My manager left for another company, and since I'd been with the team for 4 years at that point, I was asked if I wanted to take over. I agreed, not realizing how much of a shift it was. It's an entirely different profession, and it's made me wonder how realistic the notion of an Engineering Manager is. It's sort…

> who actually went to business school for management. Are these actually good? Sometimes I feel like education has such a large disconnect from reality. Especially true in corporate fields. There is also the meme of MBAs showing up and ruining everything. I also went to business school for undergrad, idk if any of it is useful. though it was a while ago now

A lot of MBA material is intentionally geared towards roles in senior management, so while there's some material that would be practically useful for someone like an engineering manager, that's definitely not the focus. There are other programs that are optimized for technical management roles, e.g. https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/graduate/industry-progra...

I think the material itself is useful, and that the MBAs who show up and ruin everything would be even more likely to ruin everything if you put them in the same positions without the knowledge from their MBAs. But the barrier to entry for even elite MBA programs frankly isn't that high, so if you treat an elite MBA as a sufficient condition for a leadership hire, you're gonna have a bad time.

Re: You're barely managing

#76

Post by rawgabbit »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #8
SassyGrapefruit wrote: post #3

Most people just aren't cut out for it. To be a good manager you need to .... 1. Be willing to be wrong a lot and admit it 2. Show vulnerablility 3. Deal with constant setbacks and disappoinment Most people get the reigns and are suprised to find out its actually a thing nobody wants. Like being a social worker.

Most of us believe managers have power and just get to boss people around. We are in for a rude awakening to find the opposite :). There was a brilliant hardward business review article on what managers learn in their first year - if you read it and acknowledge some of those challenges / aspects on day 1, it'll put you far ahead of your fellow first-time managers: https://hbr.org/2007/01/becoming-the-boss (sadly, I r…

I had new managers who thought they could boss around the members of other teams. All they did was anger the other teams manager for not respecting that team’s priorities.

The most succinct managerial advice I have heard comes down to (a) the CEO has a strategic plan for the org for which your team has a role (b) in this role what is your team supposed to accomplish and within what constraints (c) if your team can’t do it figure out what needs to change so you can (d) if your team is making progress, learn what are the drivers and blockers so you talk intelligently if there is a change in timing or scope (e) talk with your peers and ask how are their teams doing?

Re: You're barely managing

#77

Post by gabereiser »

tyre wrote: post #62
gabereiser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh how I wish I could upvote this more. You called it. Managers get support that ICs only dream about. They can fail time and time again and get promoted. They can screw up deadlines and project priorities and continue to do what they do. I’ve had some great managers, I’ve had some bad ones too. I strive the be a great one myself by practicing what I preach. Servant leadership. What are some red flags to look for in…

Lack of accountability is not the same as support. It actually much closer to the opposite of what the author seems to mean, which is help improving. I see what you’re saying and deeply feel where you’re coming from, but I think you’re identifying a different malignancy.

Lack of accountability is one. Supporting each other at the management level is another. Just like you support your team members, they support each other.

The level of support the company affords managers and up is measurably more than the support they give an IC.

Re: You're barely managing

#78

Post by HumblyTossed »

The difference between good and bad managers is a good manager manages while a bad one reacts. A bad manager will do practically nothing until something happens (a request from his/her boss, an angry customer, etc) and then everything else stops to handle the manager's new emergency.

Re: You're barely managing

#79

Post by cafard »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #5

> How many managers do you know who studied to be managers of people? > I mean more than a couple of one-day courses; I mean someone who studied to be a manager the way someone studied to be a software engineer or doctor. > I personally don’t know anyone, and while those degrees definitely exist, it’s got me wondering: of the total managers in the world, how many of them have those qualifications? Is it even 1%? ...…

Doesn't everyone who goes through a military academy study to be a manager of people? (Or for that matter OCS or NCO school, if for a shorter time.)

Re: You're barely managing

#80

Post by JohnFen »

giantg2 wrote: post #24
thaumaturgy wrote: post #5

> How many managers do you know who studied to be managers of people? > I mean more than a couple of one-day courses; I mean someone who studied to be a manager the way someone studied to be a software engineer or doctor. > I personally don’t know anyone, and while those degrees definitely exist, it’s got me wondering: of the total managers in the world, how many of them have those qualifications? Is it even 1%? ...…

I agree on the solution posed being the same as the problem claimed. "but none of them has offered me, in the end, more credibility as a manager." Spoken like a true manager. Is credibility/credentializing the point? I mean, it's certainly used everywhere like requirements of having an MBA (which often include leadership/management classes). But I don't know if any training really makes someone a good people leader w…

> But I don't know if any training really makes someone a good people leader who didn't already have some natural talent at it.

I think that inherent talent (by which I mean "a deep and genuine interest") is important in any field of expertise, including management. But I also agree with Adam Savage's opinion on this: you can achieve 80% mastery of anything through practice. Getting that last 20% requires talent.

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