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Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

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Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#51

Post by hardware2win »

INTPenis wrote: post #38
hardware2win wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this even related to dotnet? All you need to type is some apt get dotn... and you can go

Then I guess Microsoft have a long way to come in destroying old stigmas about their software and ecosystem. I was actually devops for a .net project at my $dayjob, and I noticed the nuget repositories we setup in Gitlab for the developers. So I could tell that a lot of my preconceptions about .net are probably wrong. But I'd still prefer any other language like Python, Rust, Golang, Nodejs just because I'm afraid of…

>It's so damn frustrating to run into tooling issues, and when they stem from ruthless capitalism it seems even more frustrating than simple package management issues with npm for example. At least I can always check the source code. ;)

https://source.dot.net or github

>than simple package management issues with npm

Unlike js, Microsoft has shitton of stuff in std, so no need for 3rd :)

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#52

Post by Woshiwuja »

ImPleadThe5th wrote: post #23
barumrho wrote: post #10

Isn't it because it was tied to Windows? My impression still is that the ecosystem is not as well supported outside of Windows. Similar problem with Swift even though it started out as an open source project. The ties to Apple OSes are hard to break and ignore.

Unfortunately the perception remains, but its been platform agnostic since like 2016. I think it deserves some of the hate it gets for its previous state, but it is really a pleasure to work with these days. My current job is a kotlin shop and I miss .net/c# a lot.

I mean... 2016 is pretty damn late

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#53

Post by xtracto »

INTPenis wrote: post #20

As a lifetime Linux user, I think it's obvious. A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, which can best be done with open and freely available tools. When I'm in the zone, my creativity is flowing, the last thing I need is to register on some website, or to purchase a license.

I've been in the rodeo for 20 years now. I started as a Jr dev in a Microsoft based software company that had some kind of M$ certification which gave us all the MSDN CDs. I was the first C# .Net programmer when I joined as C# had just been introduced and I loved learning it at uni as an alternative to ugly Java.

The two things that "bit" me all these years is that, all "free" stuff given by Microsoft was just "hooks" to claw you into their expensive and closed ecosystem .

As someone said, there may be some misconceptions from legacy behaviour that is no longer true, but I fear that the only "first class" citizen CLR and tooling for .NET lives in windows. Suddenly you need IIS and sqlserver windows and all the expensive stack.

OTOH I think as a language C# is pretty neat and CLR is great tech as well, but I wouldnt dare to use it on production in a Linux system

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#54

Post by hardware2win »

hahn-kev wrote: post #47
barumrho wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that fragmentation is a sign of more active development and a cause for excitement. Of course, it comes with less stability/maturity, but it means that everyone is empowered to do their own thing. Huge cultural difference.

Yeah because the fragmentation of the JS ecosystem is such a great feature

Especially in the world of supply chain attacks

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#55

Post by Woshiwuja »

skwirl wrote: post #32
pluto_modadic wrote: post #25

oh lord. Not just a meme language as discussed, but the language and framework design decisions alone are bad enough. add onto that the business heads who think they should use C# for their startup also bring legacy enterprise ideas with them that won't work...

C# is one of the best designed languages that I've had the pleasure to use.

Except it's a java copy. And java sucks

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#56

Post by fennecfired »

hardware2win wrote: post #27
INTPenis wrote: post #20

As a lifetime Linux user, I think it's obvious. A startup is about getting a product out to market as soon as possible, and hopefully as cheaply as possible, which can best be done with open and freely available tools. When I'm in the zone, my creativity is flowing, the last thing I need is to register on some website, or to purchase a license.

How is this even related to dotnet? All you need to type is some apt get dotn... and you can go

You edited your comment, but the comparison of Microsoft to Oracle is pretty fitting. They're both the worst of the worst.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#57

Post by fennecfired »

taxman22 wrote: post #33

You should use the best tool for the job, and if that's dotnet go for it. That said, it would be difficult to hire strong engineers, across all experience levels. Your team would probably skew older and have outdated engineering practices.

You should use the best tool for the job, but also consider the ramifications of supporting monopolies/cronyism and exclude those options.

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#58

Post by HelloNurse »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #14
CharlieDigital wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you see as the issue being "controlled by microsoft"? What risk do you see here?

There was a good discussion just yesterday, "Why did Visual Basic die?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37470318 That might be a place to start looking. It basically comes down to:b they could take development in any direction and the community of users is powerless.

For .Net, there's an established pattern of careless deprecation that produced enough frameworks to date codebases like tree rings:

  - this year's correct way to access your database is...
  - this year's correct way to serve dynamic web pages is...
  - this year's correct way to make a Windows GUI is...

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#59

Post by teleforce »

Dot net is a series of efforts for the holy grails of write once, run anywhere (WORA) codes.

It started with C, then Java and then dot net later WORA iteration, albeit it's already more than 20 years old technology, how time flies.

To be fair C is extremely successful in term of popularity (case study Linux), followed by Java (case study Android) and then dot net (case study MAUI), and yet none successfully provides turnkey, seamless and hassle free solution for the WORA codes. This give rise to the joke of "Write Once, Debug Everywhere".

It's most likely that dot net is not going to be the last time people try to invent (or re-invent) WORA codes, so prepare yourself for the next big thing in WORA.

[1] Write once, run anywhere (WORA):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_once,_run_anywhere

Re: Why isn’t dotnet core popular among startups?

#60

Post by Const-me »

edgyquant wrote: post #6

Why would you use C# if starting a company/project today? I know C# fans love it, but seriously why not choose a community driven language over one controlled by microsoft?

I don’t care who controls what if the technology in question is technically good, and it comes with a good enough license. Here’s two examples.

For embedded Linux, .NET runtime delivers memory safety for high-level pieces, great support for networking and multithreading, combined with simple unmanaged interop for low-level pieces. The lower-level parts of the software I made were in C++ to consume OS APIs not exposed to C# like drm/kms/egl, also to implement a few performance-critical functions in C++ with NEON SIMD.

For a web service running on Linux: the same binary runs on my development amd64 Windows and the target aarch64 Linux which makes it easy to develop and test stuff. Asp.net framework is first party, stable, and mature. The runtime is relatively small and is trivial to deploy. That project didn’t use C++ at all; the complete server is implemented in memory-safe managed code, good for security.

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