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Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

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Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#131
post #121

I've dealt with e-discovery sets. No one really has answers to what to do when you have a litigation hold on data. Legislation commonly requires "retention of anything related to X case", but how do you know what's relevant and what isn't? When you are a third party the ambiguity increases. So you end up with an everything and kitchen sink data dump. Even with everything the data is commonly useless without context.…

This isn't a problem, its the 'perfect moment' for a frighteningly ambitious, disruptive startup, per HN speak. I think its clear that this would be a problem in an industry where the most used tool is a bookshelf of various common interpretations of law. It just doesn't scale.

No, it's a problem.

The idea that law firms don't do IT is born of ignorance. Even the idea that the most used tool is a bookshelf of common interpretations of law is wrong, unsurprisingly all that stuff is online these days. Why on earth would anyone with two brain cells to rub together search for case histories on paper when there's Lexus Nexus which will do it in fractions of a second and is updated on a regular basis?

Yes these people are pretty conservative they're not stupid and they have money (a lot of money). Large law firms will typically have IT departments of hundreds and there's a significant market for companies specialising in supporting the legal sector.

But this is a tough problem because not only are there huge amounts of data involved but because people are actively trying to hinder your search. The law says that you have to to disclose everything relevant but it's pretty much common practice to also disclose a bunch of things that might be and a shed load of stuff you know full well isn't. This is a double win for the defending firm - not only can no-one accuse you of not providing everything they might want to see, but you get to do so in a way that makes very very difficult for them to find the stuff that matters.

Think of it this way - the problem is basically the same one Google have (already a pretty tough problem) only instead of the people providing the pages being keen that their information be discovered, they're actively trying to hide it.

Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's anything like the usual proceedings, the lawyers involved would probably prefer if they had several copies of the data, too. I'm sure most of these drives were arrayed in such a fashion where they're unreadable unless in the proper equipment. It's not like you can just buy a pile of off-the-shelf external drives and start copying, either, as the contents might be unreadable unless the proper software is insta…

Not to mention that it would cost (1Tb * $109 @ newegg) * ( 25,000 Tb) $2,725,000 just to replicate it.

I'm sure you could get a bulk discount though.

Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#133
post #31
post #6

It sucks, but that's the price of doing business. They chose their customer, and now are (unfortunately) tied to consequences. Same thing happens to building owners who have a crime committed by a tenant, the leased space becomes a crime scene until the police/govt are done with their investigation.

I hate to say it, because I'm as sympathetic to this ISP as anyone else. But this is what insurance is for. Big single customers are risks. Surely someone out there would have been willing to write a policy to cover unforseeable things like this.

If the insurance writer did their due diligence and realized the big single customer was MegaUpload (and what a large portion of MU's users were doing with the service), they would've been insane to write an insurance policy. I really don't think MU going down in an investigation falls under the category of "unforseeable." It was always a question of when, not if IMHO.

Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not backing up your important data is passive stupidity. Backing up your data on Megaupload and then not keeping a local copy is active stupidity of such vast scale that I refuse to believe it has ever happened in the real world.

> Backing up your data on Megaupload and then not keeping a local copy is active stupidity of such vast scale that I refuse to believe it has ever happened in the real world. The purpose of having a backup is so that you can restore your data after the original is lost, because there is a good chance the original will be lost. Explicitly retaining it on your local system is not enough to keep it safe. If it was, ther…

Do you really think a million people used Megaupload for backups, when the service was nearly completely unusable for that task?

Do you think they were zipping up the contents of their own systems and then uploading them daily?

Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#135

So, 25 petabytes ... 25 million gigabytes. Anyone care to guess how much of this data is illegitimate? And how much of that is under MPAA's copyright? Back-of-the-envelope calculation: Just did a search for "1080" on some unnamed site and it appears a bluray rip of a movie encodes to roughly 10GB. So that would be 2.5 million movies in 1080p quality. I don't think we've made that many, have we? Especially if you cons…

Think of the problem from the opposite direction. What the hell _else_ could the bulk of that possibly be? I've got 4TB of storage on my media server, last time I checked at ~60% used.At _best_, possibly 0.5% of that is stuff that I've personally created and have copyright over. Hell, all the email I've sent _or recieved_ that wasnt spam filtered since mid 1995 only comes to a few hundred meg - including attachments!…

Just because you don't happen to have activities that generate enormous amounts of data doesn't mean nobody else does.

There's also people that make a lot more video data than you apparently do, same for sound recordings. Do you believe that the majority of recorded video data in the world is MPAA's? That would go against everything we know about the "long tail". You do realize that of all text (or books) written in the world, less than 1% actually gets published? Why would video or audio be any different? Just because you don't produce it, doesn't mean the MPAA industries are the only ones that do.

Also as you say, there's academia, PHD students I know use equipment that generates gigabytes per second. Or without equipment there's computer programs that do it from calculations. Now I agree it doesn't seem likely they'd use megaupload for that.

And that's just a few things I can come up with right now. Who knows what sort of computer stuff other people do that generates retarded amounts of data they need to share?

I'm also not saying that all that copyrighted stuff isn't there, it's just that if it's 25 petabytes worth of data, it just doesn't add up, the MPAA-represented copyrighted part of those 25 petabytes can only be a tiny fraction of that amount.

Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#136
post #124

So, 25 petabytes ... 25 million gigabytes. Anyone care to guess how much of this data is illegitimate? And how much of that is under MPAA's copyright? Back-of-the-envelope calculation: Just did a search for "1080" on some unnamed site and it appears a bluray rip of a movie encodes to roughly 10GB. So that would be 2.5 million movies in 1080p quality. I don't think we've made that many, have we? Especially if you cons…

Megaupload has multiple copies of almost every single movie and TV show in the world in multiple formats and quality levels. I have watched some very rare international films on Mega and it never failed me on a search. If you multiply out all the movies, all the multiple copies, all the TV show espisodes, all the different quality levels, you would get a few petabytes.

> Megaupload has multiple copies of almost every single movie and TV show in the world in multiple formats and quality levels.

> I have watched some very rare international films on Mega and it never failed me on a search.

> If you multiply out all the movies, all the multiple copies, all the TV show espisodes, all the different quality levels, you would get a few petabytes.

I implore you to do a back-of-the-envelope estimate and get to 25 petabytes.

Please take into account that I purposefully started with the highest quality level currently in use, which is ~10GB per movie. The assumption is that lower quality levels will only be a fraction of that size therefore all versions of a single movie won't be more than 20-50GB total. Additionally, many older movies are not available in the high quality formats and take up only a tenth of this space.

Also I'd like to point out that the MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of America, which is an American trade association that represents the six big Hollywood studios. So they don't represent the "rare international films".

Still, I'm just making rough estimates myself as well. I'd love it if you could come up with a possible way to explain that, say, at least half of this data could consist of MPAA represented intellectual property.

I just don't think they produced nearly enough content to warrant shutting down all the data stored in MegaUpload, even given that MegaUpload probably does store all their IP illegally, in multiple formats.

Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the problem from the opposite direction. What the hell _else_ could the bulk of that possibly be? I've got 4TB of storage on my media server, last time I checked at ~60% used.At _best_, possibly 0.5% of that is stuff that I've personally created and have copyright over. Hell, all the email I've sent _or recieved_ that wasnt spam filtered since mid 1995 only comes to a few hundred meg - including attachments!…

Just because you don't happen to have activities that generate enormous amounts of data doesn't mean nobody else does. There's also people that make a lot more video data than you apparently do, same for sound recordings. Do you believe that the majority of recorded video data in the world is MPAA's? That would go against everything we know about the "long tail". You do realize that of all text (or books) written in…

" … it just doesn't add up, the MPAA-represented copyrighted part of those 25 petabytes can only be a tiny fraction of that amount."

Interesting. My completely uninformed assumption is diametrically opposite to that. I'm guessing there's not much sophisticated de-dup going on, and _way_ more of the diskspace on MegaUpload is probably various bit-wise different rips of the same smallish set of Hollywood blockbusters. And while I agree the long tail suggests there's almost certainly lots of people out there with lots on non-mpaa-copyright encumbered files - I'd be quite surprised to find the area under the "long tail" was withing 2 or 3 orders of magnitude of the "fat head" occupied by all the copies of all the dvd rips and broadcast tv recordings.

I wonder if there's any believable data anywhere to see whether I'm wrong?

(Note: I've got a non-US-centric view of this too, here in Australia internet connection plans lag behind the US in terms of speed and bandwidth caps, so even though I've got friends who generate lots of GoPro footage for example, but they'll in general be storing them on locally attached harddrives, not trying to push gigabytes of raw data out into "the cloud". That might explain why I make tghe possibly-incorrect assumptions that I do…)

Re: Storing 25 petabytes of Megaupload data costs us $9,000 a day

#138
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Megaupload has multiple copies of almost every single movie and TV show in the world in multiple formats and quality levels. I have watched some very rare international films on Mega and it never failed me on a search. If you multiply out all the movies, all the multiple copies, all the TV show espisodes, all the different quality levels, you would get a few petabytes.

> Megaupload has multiple copies of almost every single movie and TV show in the world in multiple formats and quality levels. > I have watched some very rare international films on Mega and it never failed me on a search. > If you multiply out all the movies, all the multiple copies, all the TV show espisodes, all the different quality levels, you would get a few petabytes. I implore you to do a back-of-the-envelope…

I did, hence: "you would get a few petabytes."
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