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Why I quit medicine

gautams.posterous.com

61–70 of 119 posts

Re: Why I quit medicine

#61
Things will start to change soon, there are some signs of this already. Healthcare remains heavily regulated, and because of this even for profit institutions are sometimes run as government institutions. This is most apparent in nursing facilities. Medicare is the predominant payor, and there's no reason for any facility to go beyond what medicare requires. Why invest in electronic records, etc? if medicare doesn't require it (although that's changing now). It's just an added expense.

But it's become apparent to policy makers that Medicare is getting more and more expensive, and some type of change is going to have be initiated. With private health insurance, it's the same picture. Costs are going up and more of these costs are being shifted to the insured (patients). Deductibles have gone up tremendously, and the days of the $5-$10 co-pay are almost gone.

The solution, in both cases although perhaps implemented in different ways, is going to have require the patient/insured to be responsible for paying for themselves directly. On the surface, it seems like a bad thing, but in the longer run it's a good thing. It brings into play what healthcare has been lacking - market forces. Almost all other industries have market forces in play, but not so much in healthcare. Go to a great surgeon, or go to an average one, they get paid the same. Why? It shouldn't be that way.

But once people have to pay more out of their own pocket, they are going to be far more careful about who they see. The level of service provided is going to matter. Ease of access is going to matter. Outcomes are going to matter. How about a refund if certain things don't turn out as promised?

And that's where there is going to be tremendous opportunities for startups. To provide technology for patients, and for doctors, hospitals, etc to provide a better level of service. All parties involved will be actively looking for these tools at some point.

Granted there are some regulatory hurdles, and HIPAA was really a poorly thought out piece of legislation, but as the startup community grows, there will be tools made available to navigate these hurdles as well.

Re: Why I quit medicine

#62
Perhaps its a compensation or cultural issue with medicine in the UK.

But, as a doctor, changing careers and creating a startup, especially one on the other side of the planet, seems an extreme reaction with extreme risk. Why not go private or even change geographies but remain a doctor while working on this problem on the side?

I say this because, given how well compensated doctors can be, as well as clear and progressive career paths and the strong vocational aspect, the opportunity cost of this change is enormous!

TL;DR. Are there other more significant issues involved?

Re: Why I quit medicine

#63
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did some very basic research for an essay on "Healthcare in the Cloud", and yes, the regulatory side sounded very painful. Among the relevant regulations, the big ones are HIPAA and HITECH: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_an... http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/administrative/enforcem... A big point that I remember was that a HIPAA breach was up to 1.5 million dollars in fines. "A maxim…

Wonder if smartphones open up some new doors here? Assuming doctor and patient both have a smartphone medical notes for a patient are shared but only available for doctors within the physical vicinity of the patient i.e. the patient's phone acts as the gateway to that data.

Not sure if it's a viable idea with all those wireless transmissions.

Re: Why I quit medicine

#64

This article touches on why it somewhat bothers me to see some of my smartest friends applying to med school right now. I'm sure being a doctor is a rewarding profession and the work they do is so incredibly important to their patients--but it's not particularly unique work. Medicine is the application of the already known. (Most med students are not going to be the next DeBakey.) Rather than contributing original wo…

You can make this argument about most software developers too, while they may create unique applications, they are mainly using the "already known" (existing languages, API's, etc)... You can then go on to apply this argument to nearly any other "white collar" job, accounting is "the application of the already known", etc.. White collar does not mean that you are in a research field and pushing the limits of knowledg…

"Blue collar" was a poor voice of words. You're right that the white/blue collar divide is not a creative difference.

But I still feel that software development is a creative field whereas most of medicine is reactive. All fields are based upon past knowledge so the use of APIs seems irrelevant since they are just tools used to create.

The criterion to differentiate between creative and non-creative fields seems to be whether multiple "correct" answers exist. Obviously in programming the solutions to problems vary in terms of algorithms,implementations, etc. On the other hand, medical diagnosis is either correct or incorrect. Even prescribing treatments seems to be more of "do X with A factors, do Y in the presence of B factors" rather than an individualized, creative approach.

Re: Why I quit medicine

#65
post #39

With a title of "Why I quit medicine" you would think somebody quit medicine because there is something wrong with medicine or the job of being a doctor. What we have instead is a very well intentioned individual that is getting out of medicine because they want to run a startup. And that's fine. Maybe getting jealous because they see it as a path to riches and have been reading about to many outliers. Or maybe wanti…

My wife is an ER and ICU doc. I think you're crazy thinking this guy is getting into startups for financial reasons! Anyway:

1) She consistently asserts that handoffs are the most difficult and error-prone part of the job. They take up a large chunk of her time. Further, with work hour restrictions only getting stricter, the number of handoffs is only going up.

2) While face-to-face interaction is indeed crucial, surely there are improvements to be made! Let the doctors give crucial information face-to-face, secure in the knowledge that basic patient information is stored in a trustworthy system, and you should see less errors.

> they are very closed minded and it's hard to get change.

Obviously this is a huge obstacle! But even by your own argument, there are surely ways to improve, and an ex-doctor is the ideal candidate to figure out how to do so.

Re: Why I quit medicine

#66
post #2

Sounds a lot like the medical data startup I joined ten years ago. We were so, so painfully naive about the realities of medical software. Medical records are a trivial technical problem, but an almost insurmountable political and regulatory challenge. I knew our company was doomed when we were talking to another medical software company and saw the literal wall of binders that represented a single FDA approval proce…

Yes, and hospitals have arcane policies / IT departments, my dad is a doctor and the hospital he works at still has Internet Explorer 6 installed on all computers there and they refuse to upgrade it for fear it might break compatibility with some ancient software program they use they access through it. He wants me to create some little software program to see if he can get them to use it when the main system goes do…

> the hospital he works at still has Internet Explorer 6 installed on all computers there and they refuse to upgrade it for fear it might break compatibility with some ancient software program

Meanwhile your ability to do everything else breaks through shear attrition.

Re: Why I quit medicine

#67
post #13

Good on you, man. I'm in medical school currently and the emphasis on locking down patient data is one of the most frustrating things to see. I'm convinced that it's a policy that everyone knows has little benefit and yet pushes for ethical brownie points. What's to be gained from freeing up the data far, far exceeds what could potentially be lost. Even freeing up anonymized patient data seems to be met with oppositi…

Story from a friend working at a manage healthcare company in the early 1990s.

The state published a set of anonymized data on patient care stays associated with workman's comp.

The company wrote code to correlate data from these scrubbed records (age, sex, treatment dates) with data it had, to identify the patients.

These days, much of healthcare business is oriented around data flows -- pharmaceutical dispensing machines which double as patient-data-and-dosing information capture devices. The drugs vendor is willing to sell the drugs at or near cost simply to capture the datastream and sell it back to the pharmaceutical companies.

There's very, very good reason to view EMR with strong suspicion.

Re: Why I quit medicine

#68
post #39

With a title of "Why I quit medicine" you would think somebody quit medicine because there is something wrong with medicine or the job of being a doctor. What we have instead is a very well intentioned individual that is getting out of medicine because they want to run a startup. And that's fine. Maybe getting jealous because they see it as a path to riches and have been reading about to many outliers. Or maybe wanti…

When a hospitalist quits medicine I am never surprised.

* The job is boring

* The pay is average for a smart person

* The doctor spends a ton of time interacting with people that have sub-average critical thinking ability

These three things are something that one cannot admit in writing, but are all true. Some people just don't have personalities that can survive being a hospitalist. One way to cope is to have hobbies outside of work. Children are a particularly popular route. The author doesn't seem to be going down that path, so I think the startup world is a great way to escape a dead end job.

Re: Why I quit medicine

#69
post #39

With a title of "Why I quit medicine" you would think somebody quit medicine because there is something wrong with medicine or the job of being a doctor. What we have instead is a very well intentioned individual that is getting out of medicine because they want to run a startup. And that's fine. Maybe getting jealous because they see it as a path to riches and have been reading about to many outliers. Or maybe wanti…

Thanks so much for your support. You're right about how important face-to-face interaction is. That is not going to be replaced any time soon - nor should it be. But for the purpose of handover, you still need a written summary of all the patients on a ward that people can refer to. As I mentioned in the post, it would be useful to see who wrote what about each patient - so that you know who to talk to for further in…

Yeah... hackers are usually incredibly naive about compensation outside of their own world. For reference: http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2011...

Bottom line: here in the US of A, your average doc (most certainly NOT an outlier) is making between $150k and $350k. Put that in your VC-backed pipe and smoke it.

(Debt? Between $150k-$200k for 4 years of med school. Post med school training, in the form of residency and fellowship, runs anywhere from 3-12 years and pays around the $50k mark. Basically, nobody went broke by becoming a doctor.)

Which means, of course, that the outliers can do very well. I have a friend who's Dad is an oral surgeon in the Eastern Shore of MD (what might be considered the "boonies" by some). He clears about $750k/year for a 35 hour work week. llimllib's wife above is probably around the $250k mark in the ER/ICU. If that ain't coin...

Anybody who thinks that somebody left medicine for the money knows very little about medicine.

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