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Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

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Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#571

Post by junofan »

Timon3 wrote: post #570
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, hypothetically, if we had all the electric infrastructure and vehicles ready to go, sure, let's switch now. Hypothetically, that would be fine. But as you said, that doesn't affect reality . So, OK, you win the point. But in the real world, so what ? In the real world we can't do it now, so what good is your hypothetical? Maybe we would be better served by focusing on things that actually matter in reality?

Hypothetically my initial point stands: reducing fossil fuel consumption by replacing it with something else, and artificially manipulating the weather, are in completely different ballparks regarding danger. What are you trying to argue about?

I dunno, weather modification has been going on since at least the 80s and it’s pretty unnoticeable. I don’t see how we can peacefully stop China and Africa from burning coal, so I’m more interested in unilateral, noncoercive solutions.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#572

Post by Timon3 »

junofan wrote: post #571
Timon3 wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetically my initial point stands: reducing fossil fuel consumption by replacing it with something else, and artificially manipulating the weather, are in completely different ballparks regarding danger. What are you trying to argue about?

I dunno, weather modification has been going on since at least the 80s and it’s pretty unnoticeable. I don’t see how we can peacefully stop China and Africa from burning coal, so I’m more interested in unilateral, noncoercive solutions.

Really? How have we been manipulating the weather to reduce climate change since the 80s?

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#573

Post by junofan »

Timon3 wrote: post #572
junofan wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, weather modification has been going on since at least the 80s and it’s pretty unnoticeable. I don’t see how we can peacefully stop China and Africa from burning coal, so I’m more interested in unilateral, noncoercive solutions.

Really? How have we been manipulating the weather to reduce climate change since the 80s?

It’s not uncommon in places with droughts.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#574

Post by [deleted] »

dopidopHN wrote: post #551
RandomLensman wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly replace, yes, there is also electricity generation via oil to be replaced.

And we talking about individual cars & trucks. Correct ? Not mass transportation. Can we build that much batteries, lithium wise ?

[deleted]

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#575

Post by Timon3 »

junofan wrote: post #573
Timon3 wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? How have we been manipulating the weather to reduce climate change since the 80s?

It’s not uncommon in places with droughts.

In which places with droughts have we used weather manipulation to reduce climate change? I'm not talking about increasing rainfall, I'm talking about reducing climate change. Please share a specific example where we've done so since the 80s.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#576

Post by Slava_Propanei »

wolverine876 wrote: post #502
LispSporks22 wrote: post #244

> red meat I've been vegan for decades, and I would love to see humanity move on from meat, but the idea is so incredibly offensive to people that I find it far easier to imagine the the Amazon razed and replaced with cattle feeding lots before that will happen.

It's not incredibly offensive; those are rhetorical tactics and you are falling for them: Act crazy and the other side will give up; it's a simple as that. They don't care about meat; they care about defeating liberalism. They will shift their belief in a moment.

[dead]

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#577

Post by batch12 »

amrocha wrote: post #566
batch12 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone lives in a city. 'Refactoring' the planet is a pipe dream in the short term. It's not possible in the timeframe being discussed. People in the larger thread suggest that its better to get the dying over with now since it'll happen anyway. When food stops moving, it'll be the cities that fall first. A bicycle won't help.

Ok, you're a doomer and a prepper, no point in having a discussion you're not interested in

What are you talking about? You know nothing about me. You can't 'win' the discussion so you move what you think are personal insults. Do better.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#578

Post by Slava_Propanei »

thunkle wrote: post #201

I'm discouraged that politics ever even comes into this. It makes as much sense as the left likes masks and the right doesn't like masks. I wish everyone could admit this is an issue and move forward.

[dead]

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#579

Post by mempko »

huntertwo wrote: post #490
mempko wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only true if you literally crash the economy and do nothing else. What we can do is instead shift priorities, like food and housing security, while reducing the economy by not doing useless, pointless things. Do we really need all these things we buy at the store now?

We cannot build windmills, solar farms, and nuclear energy plants overnight. We cannot stand up new buildings and create local food supply chains overnight. I was responding to the proposal to cut oil production by 50%-75%, which would be great, but must be done gradually so that our current economic systems have time to respond, i.e. not crash. Maybe we can announce a ban on pork, beef, plastics, TVs, consumption, e…

What you have to do is make it worthwhile for people. Steve Keen's idea of a dual price is imo a great idea. How it works is everything has both a dollar price and a carbon price. Everyone in society gets the same amount of carbon credits. You can sell these credits for dollars and vice versa. Those who use a LOT of carbon have to buy them from those that have the credits. What this does is create a wealth distribution down while at the same time capping carbon usage. Those who use very little carbon benefit because they can buy things they previously couldn't, while those that use a lot are punished. Since the vast majority of people are at the lower end of carbon usage, I believe this would be a very popular program.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#580

Post by danbolt »

concordDance wrote: post #542
danbolt wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the world would benefit if western nations had a carbon levy on imports as well as a carbon tax on domestically-produced goods. Or, with the added costs, market forces would encourage people to find more efficient lifestyles. If someone wanted a more environmentally-taxing lifestyle, they could play the fair cost.

The calculations are infeasible expensive for most goods, you'd almost shut down trade. Either that or its a flat rate per good which just becomes yet another import tax.

That import tax is worthwhile if it reduces emissions in the right areas. We should probably be eating less beef shipped out of Austrlia and producing less plastic packaging.

Some trade does need to be shut down, as the externalities aren't being properly handled at the moment.

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