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Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#261

Post by kortex »

mjsweet wrote: post #22
Mistletoe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try some aspirin as a control and see if you get the same result.

I forgot to add a potentially relevant detail: garlic contains a compound called allicin, which has blood-thinning properties akin to aspirin. Intrigued by this similarity, I decided to run an N=1 experiment. I bought some aspirin from the pharmacy and tried it out. The results were astonishing — almost euphoric — and I felt like a new person.

Is it blood thinning or is it the anti-inflammatory effects? What does ibuprofen do? Take 600-800mg in a single sitting (on a full stomach).

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#262

Post by npunt »

lindsaywaterman wrote: post #21

Physician here. Imo CFS is best understood as the endpoint of an evolution within the nervous system that is increasingly called "central sensitization syndrome." (CSS) This syndrome is caused by a chronic dissociative or avoidant stress response, usually having it's origin in early childhood adversity. Prior to developing CFS, most individuals have other manifestations of CSS, such as IBS, chronic pain, TMD, etc. Ev…

sigh no, this is not the generally recognized understanding of MECFS, just one hypothesis, and one that better explains fibro/pain [1]. It's also a conclusion not too distant from the 'its in your head' concept that has held back research in this field for decades.

A more recent hypothesis with some experimental evidence is related to ATP production issues, specifically the itaconate shunt. See this overview from MECFS expert Ron Davis filmed last week [2]

Disruptions to a healthy gut microbiome is another hypothesis that has a lot of interesting results. I'm involved in a study on this [3]

Saying 'I'm a physician, its best understood as...' suggests a level of certainty to a disease whose underlying causes are unclear and the subject of active research. It would be an extreme disservice to MECFS patients to just say 'do pacing and mindfulness' and not explore other very promising treatments.

That said, pacing is essential and CSS is worthy of additional study.

[1]: https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Central_sensitization

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7inKF32vtl8

[3]: https://remissionbiome.org

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#263

Post by talldatethrow »

bigbillheck wrote: post #256
talldatethrow wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I have tried it many times and my body has some intense urge for beef, and ground beef IMO is the easiest to make, digest, and cheapest and has fats that are good for you IMO. Some people think poorly of ground beef because "you don't know what's in it!" But moments later will tell you it's important to eat all parts of the animal because they have different nutrients. Ok then, sounds like ground beef is a go…

> There's also the fact that beef is basically the one food you could eat alone 365 days a year your whole life and get everything you need Once your teeth fall out from scurvy you'll be glad the beef is ground so you don't have to chew as much.

It's sad that you get your info from government labels that round down and then extrapolate.. but there is vitamin c in beef.

Beyond that, I said to drink a gallon of fresh vegetable juice daily... I think they'll be alright.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#264

Post by talldatethrow »

mushbino wrote: post #239
talldatethrow wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 90 days is long enough to see results for most people, but not so long that it's an impossible time frame. Because drinking 10 lbs of vegetables is doable, but eating them is almost impossible raw. If you cook them, it's still hard to eat 10 lbs of vegetables and you've killed a lot of nutrients. Because it gives your body a break from digestion. You'll feel a lot better. Edit: even those that think the idea…

I usually process a bunch of vegetables in a Vitamix because I think it's better to have it with the fiber. Would this be less of a good thing than just a straight juice? I've heard the juice loan isn't great without the fiber, but I don't know.

Blending a nice way to eat some vegetables for sure.

The idea of this temporary diet is to give your body time to live off only vegetables, with limited digestion effort. Even if you don't care about digestion, it is hard to eat, even blended, enough vegetables to maintain energy/calories/body weight. Even blended, I don't think you could eat 10 lbs a day for 90 days. That's the main benefit.

Unless you have an actual major sugar problem, I wouldn't worry too much about the sugar spike from juicing. We do much worse things than that to our body. Heck, some people even drink alcohol.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#265

Post by npunt »

cascades42 wrote: post #194
akdor1154 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could be completely right in some cases, but the way you present this is completely disregarding a professional researcher, peer reviewed and published paper, and honestly quite decent pop sci writeup. I don't think that level of dismissal is fair or respectful unless you accompany it with a relevant criticism of the research itself.

I'm a neuroscientist who published on central sensitization and chronic pain. Unfortunately, I was forced into retirement by chronic fatigue syndrome. The linked article and others have convinced me that CFS can be caused by viruses. There's one important and tricky question: is a viral infection necessary to trigger CFS in humans (such as long COVID or in this linked article), or is an extremely stressful series of…

Well said. Can't rule CS out, but can't say it is the endpoint either.

Re: mitochondrial dysfunction, you may be interested in Ron Davis' latest on the 'itaconate shunt', presented last week [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7inKF32vtl8

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#266

Post by mxmilkiib »

Also, in the last decade or so, it turns out like 20% of CFS folk actually have PoTS aka Postural orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome.

I finally got a PoTS diagnosis last year (along with ASD and ADHD), at 39.

Lying down for 5 minutes then standing up for 10 - if the pulse gets and remains high but with a low blood pressure, that's the main diagnostic criteria.

Symptoms include head rushes, gray outs, brain fog, fainting in like 8%, fatigue, temprature intolerance to hot and cold, cold exteremities, bladder issues e.g. needing to pee more than average ("PoTS bladder"), palpitations as in feeling your pulse (not aythmia) and maybe even rocking/stimming to it (I got great muscle control from trying to cover it up for so long, great for dancing).

Things that help are certain postures, staying hydrated, increasing salt intake by x8 to help the body retain water, leggings or compression socks.

Apparently there are other drugs, but you will be explaining it to most medical folk you meet. I'm waiting for a cardio referral in the UK, though ultimatly it's an autonomic system issue so I would have thought neurology, but we will live and learn.

Possibly maybe I had EDS; zebras keep saying I have such smooth skin and move in a hypermobile way, though I don't pass the standard over-stretch tests, but praying upward behind my back is no problem what-so-ever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postural_orthostatic_tachycard...

I've just realised I might have "amplified musculoskeletal pain syndrome" also, which is something I had been planning bringing up. I didn't know how to factor the chronic "unable to ever relax" pain underlying everything in.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#267

Post by DoreenMichele »

mxmilkiib wrote: post #266

Also, in the last decade or so, it turns out like 20% of CFS folk actually have PoTS aka Postural orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome. I finally got a PoTS diagnosis last year (along with ASD and ADHD), at 39. Lying down for 5 minutes then standing up for 10 - if the pulse gets and remains high but with a low blood pressure, that's the main diagnostic criteria. Symptoms include head rushes, gray outs, brain fog, faintin…

Things that help are certain postures, staying hydrated, increasing salt intake by x8 to help the body retain water, leggings or compression socks.

That's a lot of salt. Do you also get a lot of respiratory infections?

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#268

Post by andrekandre »

lelanthran wrote: post #26
mjsweet wrote: post #7

I've battled with CFS/ME multiple times in my life, each triggered by different ailments. First, it was Epstein-Barr at the end of my tenth grade, leading to two solid years of chronic CFS. Then, at 31, Chicken Pox knocked me out for roughly 18 to 24 months. More recently, from January to August 2021, I experienced "Long Covid," and this July, a bout with RSV left me grappling with CFS once again. My symptoms include…

Where can I find out more about the garlic that isn't a homeopathic or alternative medicine site? Would ginger have a similar effect? As I understand it, they share many properties.

  > Would ginger have a similar effect? As I understand it, they share many properties.
recovering cfs sufferer here, and n=1 but for me, yes it seems so. from my experience garlic is definitely the more potent one (personally i prefer ginger)

  > Where can I find out more about the garlic that isn't a homeopathic or alternative medicine site?
difficult, but fwiw in japan we have something here called "gatlic injection" which you can literaly just go to a medical clinic and get

some of the uses are for tiredness, hangover, skincare etc [1]

[1] https://jsaps2017.jp/guides/article/1097/

* you might try some searching on japanese sites and google translate

** i'm not advocating for this btw, just sharing ^^)

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#270

Post by talldatethrow »

ricardobeat wrote: post #251
talldatethrow wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why do you think taking the fiber out of vegetables is good?

Because without doing so I can't eat 1000-1500 calories of vegetables.

I think this is worth doing once every few years at least for 90 days.

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