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Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#201

Post by bonzini »

pge wrote: post #174
bonzini wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: what is a good alternative to Access (edit: to build a GUI frontend to a database)? The database design tools and basic forms were incredibly easy to use, and there were very good tutorials for everything else. LibreOffice Base is different and not even close in comprehensiveness, and there seems to be nothing replacing it that isn't a super expensive SaaS.

Airtable is the closest I have found for ease of use - users that don’t know SQL can put together basic queries and views quickly.

1000 records per table on the free tier is ridiculously low, it basically makes many to many relations impossible. It also doesn't have reporting, and I have no need for attachments.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#203

Post by mikewarot »

nvy wrote: post #176
bonzini wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: what is a good alternative to Access (edit: to build a GUI frontend to a database)? The database design tools and basic forms were incredibly easy to use, and there were very good tutorials for everything else. LibreOffice Base is different and not even close in comprehensiveness, and there seems to be nothing replacing it that isn't a super expensive SaaS.

Equally serious question: what is the use case for Access? It's been installed on every corp workstation I've had and it's never been useful. In my experience either Excel can do it or you need a real programming language/database.

Access allowed maintained "relations" between tables, so you didn't need any code to have a master/detail relationship between tables, it just handled it all. This carried over to forms, queries, reports, etc. You could have a system with data entry, master/detail records, queries and reports built in a day, all without ever doing any SQL.

Through ODBC, you could connect to pretty much any database around. I think Office 2000 Professional was one of the best products Microsoft ever produced, it's all downhill since then.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#204

Post by _glass »

jzb wrote: post #128
dwheeler wrote: post #87

Visual Basic (both of them) still exist, but their use has dropped dramatically through some big changes: * "Visual .NET" (aka "Visual Fred" http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/Visual-Fred.html ) was released by Microsoft. This was an incompatible language confusingly also called Visual Basic. I don't think Microsoft realized how angry this made developers and businesses, who were being asked to spend hundreds of billions…

Visual Basic is one of the best arguments for open source and community ownership in the history of computing, IMO. Microsoft's decision to tank it was hugely painful for companies that had made major investments in it -- no company should make that kind of investment in a proprietary platform that can be killed off by a single company and not forked and maintained by others.

I totally agree with you, but unfortunately the lesson was not learned. Now in the back office you see "standard" software with their own scripting language, e.g., APAX in Salesforce, or ABAP in SAP. Which is seen as a step forward, which it is architecturally, but not the point that you rightfully mentioned. On the other hand, all code is cyclical, if someone were to make it in Python, that would have to be rewritten, too. At least if you go the Free Software way, you're free to choose when.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#205

Post by wavemode »

TrackerFF wrote: post #151
mamonster wrote: post #8

Does VBA for Excel count? Because if it does then VBA for Excel has reached the"nuclear resistant cockroach" level in finance. You wouldn't believe what sort of processes in very big banks/financial institutions are built using 10 year old VBA macros. In fact, VBA consulting for finance is a very juicy cottage industry at least in Europe to this very day.

Pre-face: I write a lot of VBA VBA is kind of the result of people only - ONLY - wanting to use Excel for everything. I work with those people. They have mastered excel, but have little to zero interest in learning anything else, and would rather see the world be built around excel. So you (like me) get tasked with building applications and forms in VBA. I was STOKED when MS announced Python for excel, but alas, turn…

The company I worked for in college was in the "VBA for everything" world. It was like the Renaissance when they started experimenting with Power Query for some use cases. (Which, honestly, was still a terrible language. But slightly more maintainable than VBA.)

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#206

Post by Retric »

nvy wrote: post #176
bonzini wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: what is a good alternative to Access (edit: to build a GUI frontend to a database)? The database design tools and basic forms were incredibly easy to use, and there were very good tutorials for everything else. LibreOffice Base is different and not even close in comprehensiveness, and there seems to be nothing replacing it that isn't a super expensive SaaS.

Equally serious question: what is the use case for Access? It's been installed on every corp workstation I've had and it's never been useful. In my experience either Excel can do it or you need a real programming language/database.

Access had a very low barrier to entry and sanitized inputs. Excel doesn’t cater to minimally skilled people who want to hand off forms to someone else for data entry.

Why is this zip code a phone number? It’s not the users fault, your using the wrong tool.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#207

Post by InitialBP »

From a security angle...

.net webapps written in asp.net behave similar to PHP in that any file with a .aspx extension that is within the web root will execute by default. This means that asp (and php) webservers are particularly vulnerable to RCE attacks because the default configuration of the server turns an "arbitrary file upload" into a remote code execution instead.

Where an asp.net server would handle front-end and api and they would be tightly coupled, we've moved on to where the most common configuration is a separate API and frontend. I believe you lose a lot of the benefit of using asp.net to try and decouple them.

On a totally personal note, as a penetration tester I've proxied requests from a LOT of different APIs on a lot of different technologies and asp.net is hands down one of the worst to test, the way it handles requests under the hood is unruly and ugly. Some might say that's a positive in terms of security, but IMO it makes it harder to identify vulnerabilities in your system.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#208

Post by st-keller »

We built some pretty big applications with VB6 (heavily optimized by using WinAPI-Calls and C++-libs where necessary). Nothing what came later matched development speed (although some langs using REPLs may come close). Whoever designed VB.NET didn‘t know anything about the things VB6-developers like my loved. So VB died because what came next simply wasn‘t VB.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#209

Post by dr-detroit »

mikewarot wrote: post #203
nvy wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equally serious question: what is the use case for Access? It's been installed on every corp workstation I've had and it's never been useful. In my experience either Excel can do it or you need a real programming language/database.

Access allowed maintained "relations" between tables, so you didn't need any code to have a master/detail relationship between tables, it just handled it all. This carried over to forms, queries, reports, etc. You could have a system with data entry, master/detail records, queries and reports built in a day, all without ever doing any SQL. Through ODBC, you could connect to pretty much any database around. I think Of…

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Why did Visual Basic die?

#210

Post by glonq »

Back in the WinForms era of .Net, I got the impression that anything you could write in VB you could write in nearly-identical-line-for-line C# (minus the language syntax differences).

Once it became just a subset of C# with different syntax, I suppose it had little reason to exist because nothing made it special anymore.

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