Maybe there's another part that leads to this. The world is rapidly growing in complexity, so people may not know exactly what to do after finishing high school. Anecdotally, I found that to be the case in germany. We get state-funded universities and people often start over in a different subject after realizing they didn't pick the correct one the first time around. I did that too. My and my friends' parents said t…
Gen Z is giving up on college
61–70 of 165 posts
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#62A bit of context: I undertook my 1st undergraduate program from 2007 to 2011, did an erasmus on 2010-2011, masters on 2013-2014 and Phd from 214 to 2017.
When I started at 2007 (in Spain), there was a lot of freedom. No need to go to lesson (only certain labs were compulsory), most of the the courses will not have any compulsory hand in course works. For 95% of my courses was enough to sit for the exam and pass it. Exams were difficult, rarely less than 2h and always 'unseen' problems. Failing was an option and we all experience it. You could always enroll again and try the year after. Another thing I had rarely experience afterwards, lecturer will treat you as an adult. They will talk to you as an adult, give you the freedom and expect you to behave as one.
All these freedoms allow us to learn about ourselves, do you really enjoy the topics? Do you need to spend 3h a week listening to the teacher or are you better off dealing with a different subject? Do you need 1 week to prepare for an exam or rather 9 months?
Making failure an option helped maintaining a high standard on learning outcome. There was no need to lower the bar so everyone could pass.
Also getting fees were nearly null and there were plenty of scholarships. The idea was something like everyone should have the opportunity to go to university, but only those who were ready could obtain a degree.
Later on, as I explored universities in other countries I felt it was more like, you can pay us X$ for Y years and at the end you get a shiny diploma.
Then as I shifted into software engineering, I found all the resources I needed were online. That together with the fact that universities tend to be slow to introduce new material and shift content, plus the high costs, plus the little freedom they provide, plus the focus they have on money, make universities loose appeal.
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#63Maybe there's another part that leads to this. The world is rapidly growing in complexity, so people may not know exactly what to do after finishing high school. Anecdotally, I found that to be the case in germany. We get state-funded universities and people often start over in a different subject after realizing they didn't pick the correct one the first time around. I did that too. My and my friends' parents said t…
In Germany you also have the issue of an increased number of studies to choose from, roughly 15 years ago you had some specialozation added on top of your general studies. Now some of those are standalone studies. Switching once is totally fine, after all you only what a given field looks like once you started. Maybe even twice. But by then one should now which field and degree to pursue.
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#64How do you expect people to study humanities if you're making it inherently impossible?
Though I'm a little salty because my wife bought in to the lie that studying the humanities is what you do for a career, yet her acquaintances who "made it" mostly have low-paying but high prestige jobs and a spouse who covers the bills for what is, in effect, a hobby.
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#65As a late millenial and college dropout, I have considered attending college part time, and I have enrolled in online degrees a few times. But I lose motivation every time, because every uni system seems to be stuck in the 2000s, and I have a better job than all my friends with degrees anyway. If I found the uni experience remotely enjoyable, I would surely pursue a degree.
Online degrees seem to focus on teaching materials that are cheap to obtain elsewhere. Instead, I’d like to have seminars led by someone qualified, but I guess the numbers don’t add up for this.
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#66Quite the US centred topic as university costs a fortune here.
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#67> Four years after graduating, according to recent data from the Higher Education Authority, a third of students earn less than $40,000 — lower than the average salary of $44,356 that workers with only a high-school diploma earn. Red flag here, this seems like a super misleading and bogus comparison. There is no good reason to compare the bottom third of graduates to the whole pool of non-graduates other than to try…
Since college attainment has risen over time, a better look is to see how incomes, adjusted for inflation, have increased over time. The spectrum of people observed over generations, while not totally perfect either, is more comparable. We have always had superstars and down syndrome kids.
If college graduates are making more money, more college graduates means we should see a rise in average incomes. It would appear that a 378% increase in educational attainment[1] since the 1960s brought a 17% increase in average incomes[2]. Maybe there is something to it.
But... We can also see that in the 90s, incomes actually went down as compared to the 1960s, despite still having a sizeably larger group of college graduates. This suggests that, on average, incomes are as good as stagnant and that college graduates are not earning more than they would have had they not gone to college.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/184260/educational-attai...
[2] https://www.statista.com/chart/17679/real-wages-in-the-unite...
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#68Lumping students of useless liberal arts "degrees" together with those on their way to becoming neurosurgeons, quants, investment bankers, lawyers or strategy consultants is a disgusting media default I can not comprehend. You CAN NOT lump those together for an average. Different planets. Different universes. Besides that: Aren‘t colleges as full as ever? Any college has trouble to fill a new semester?
Old school "liberal arts" before 1970 was about processing information, finding bias, finding patterns, critical thinking... Very meta... It would be excellent preparation for profession where you deal with people and information (investment banking). Liberal arts of current year has nothing to do with that.
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#69There is so much knowledge to acquire getting a degree that I kinda think that there is some agenda of making this generation dumber and dumber.
One of the things that college does well, is to teach stuff that you don't think you need, but that are so important for you.
Those that only do what their brain wants, optimize for what is more comfortable to them while university takes you out of your comfort zone.
Are there things that can be improved, yes! Of course. But go to college and have some fun learning.
Re: Gen Z is giving up on college
#70> Four years after graduating, according to recent data from the Higher Education Authority, a third of students earn less than $40,000 — lower than the average salary of $44,356 that workers with only a high-school diploma earn. Red flag here, this seems like a super misleading and bogus comparison. There is no good reason to compare the bottom third of graduates to the whole pool of non-graduates other than to try…
""" When the researchers looked at the wealth premium, and a different picture emerged. Older white college graduates, those born before 1980, were, as you might expect, a lot wealthier than their white peers who had only a high school degree. On average, they had accumulated two or three times as much wealth as high school grads of the same race and generation. But younger white college graduates — those born in the 1980s — had only a bit more wealth than white high school graduates born in the same decade, and that small advantage was projected to remain small throughout their lives.
The data for Black families showed the same pattern, but with an even more pronounced downturn. As with the white graduates, older Black college grads were enjoying sizable wealth advantages over their less-educated peers, with generally two or three times the assets of comparable Black high school grads. But Black college graduates born after 1980 were experiencing almost no wealth premium at all. In fact, the researchers found that the wealth premium for Black grads disappeared even earlier than it did for the white graduates. Black college graduates born in the 1970s weren’t receiving any substantial wealth benefit, either, only those born in the 1960s and earlier. Latino families followed a similar pattern. If they were headed by someone born after 1980, they had accumulated no significant additional resources beyond those of a comparable family headed by a high school graduate.
"""
From https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/05/magazine/college-worth-pr... - source paper is at https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/revie...
It make sense, I suppose, that in an efficient market the cost of college would rise to capture the return.