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Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#41

Post by alex_lav »

mjsweet wrote: post #32
mmsimanga wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please elaborate, are you saying taking aspirin was better than the garlic?

The answer is yes, I think it is better. Personally I’m just not prepared to take Aspirin for more than a few days. So garlic for me. Also I think that anyone who is already on blood thinning medication should consult their doctor.

My partner eats raw garlic every morning and feels great. I definitely think there's something to it, so much so that I'll probably start. It seems like the type of thing that has almost no real negative side effects, so worst case my breath just smells in the morning.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#42

Post by lindsaywaterman »

akdor1154 wrote: post #28
lindsaywaterman wrote: post #21

Physician here. Imo CFS is best understood as the endpoint of an evolution within the nervous system that is increasingly called "central sensitization syndrome." (CSS) This syndrome is caused by a chronic dissociative or avoidant stress response, usually having it's origin in early childhood adversity. Prior to developing CFS, most individuals have other manifestations of CSS, such as IBS, chronic pain, TMD, etc. Ev…

You could be completely right in some cases, but the way you present this is completely disregarding a professional researcher, peer reviewed and published paper, and honestly quite decent pop sci writeup. I don't think that level of dismissal is fair or respectful unless you accompany it with a relevant criticism of the research itself.

Ouch, you're coming at me red hot there! To be clear, I think post-viral syndromes are a common "proximal" cause of CFS. If a patient doesn't have an underlying dynamic of chronic dissociation, and doesn't already have a few other CSS syndromes, then I think it's unlikely they will develop CFS as a post-viral syndrome. Cheers.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#43

Post by gmerc »

mschuster91 wrote: post #33
quickthrower2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If so, since 90% of people have it [1], avoid it is futile (a bit like avoiding COVID). So the question is how to avoid it causing CFS, or how to get the body out of the CFS state. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK559285/#:~:text=Epstei... ..

> If so, since 90% of people have it [1], avoid it is futile (a bit like avoiding COVID) It's not futile. Install proper HEPA air filters in trains and other public transit, provide actual ventilation in public buildings, mandate antiseptic (e.g. part copper) door handles, and especially: provide actual sick leave at work and mandate employers to send sick employees home (and while we're at it, the same for kindergar…

EBS is called the kissing disease for a reason

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#44

Post by baz00 »

willemmerson wrote: post #36
lindsaywaterman wrote: post #21

Physician here. Imo CFS is best understood as the endpoint of an evolution within the nervous system that is increasingly called "central sensitization syndrome." (CSS) This syndrome is caused by a chronic dissociative or avoidant stress response, usually having it's origin in early childhood adversity. Prior to developing CFS, most individuals have other manifestations of CSS, such as IBS, chronic pain, TMD, etc. Ev…

So you're saying it's all psychological? If this is true, why are so many with ME/CFS/Long COVID responding so well to LDN? I have had ME/CFS for 25 years and also practised mindfulness and pacing all that time yet it did nothing, but when I took LDN it instantly worked.

The moment this sort of hypothesis turns up I always crow cite your sources. There's very little academic honesty in the area of psychology, a lot of it being coming up with an idea that sounds about right, finding a minuscule dataset to fit to it and then waving hands around profusely about how it's a breakthrough. Tenuous correlation it is mostly.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#45

Post by solresol »

Occasionally I think the medical world has a communication problem.

In 1989 I had some blood work done which checked for Epstein-Barr (it wasn't present) for reasons that made sense at the time. Then I got ME/CFS a few weeks later, and blood work showed that it was present this time.

That's not a slam-dunk for Epstein-Barr as a cause, of course, but I thought it was interesting enough to have the data that I talked to my immunologist about cowriting a paper on it.

She demurred, saying that quite a few such papers (where patients by chance had had before-and-after tests) had been published and there wasn't any value in adding another one, since it was pretty common to see the same pattern of Epstein-Barr virus not being there beforehand, and then appearing after in blood work after the onset of symptoms.

Fast forward to 2023 and now there's a paper saying that ME/CFS might have a post-viral infection origin.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#46

Post by ljf »

harry8 wrote: post #35
xbmcuser wrote: post #15

I did not get covid but did get the vaccines + 2 boosters. I have been feeling tired etc for the last 6+ months turns out because of the work at home etc and my lifestyle I was not getting enough sunlight and had very low vitamin D levels. I am not white so need to spend longer time in sunlight according to my doctor.

Please ask your doctor if supplements are right for you and how much.

While supplements can help, nothing been sun on your skin for vitamin D and also for other help benefits - in moderation of course.

If someone's doctor has told them to get outside more and they find it is helping, I would not personally recommend someone stays in and just take supplements as an alternative.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#47

Post by DoreenMichele »

lindsaywaterman wrote: post #21

Physician here. Imo CFS is best understood as the endpoint of an evolution within the nervous system that is increasingly called "central sensitization syndrome." (CSS) This syndrome is caused by a chronic dissociative or avoidant stress response, usually having it's origin in early childhood adversity. Prior to developing CFS, most individuals have other manifestations of CSS, such as IBS, chronic pain, TMD, etc. Ev…

Pacing would also help the body remove waste from the tissues, so it may actually be physically treating a physical cause, FYI.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#48

Post by lindsaywaterman »

willemmerson wrote: post #36
lindsaywaterman wrote: post #21

Physician here. Imo CFS is best understood as the endpoint of an evolution within the nervous system that is increasingly called "central sensitization syndrome." (CSS) This syndrome is caused by a chronic dissociative or avoidant stress response, usually having it's origin in early childhood adversity. Prior to developing CFS, most individuals have other manifestations of CSS, such as IBS, chronic pain, TMD, etc. Ev…

So you're saying it's all psychological? If this is true, why are so many with ME/CFS/Long COVID responding so well to LDN? I have had ME/CFS for 25 years and also practised mindfulness and pacing all that time yet it did nothing, but when I took LDN it instantly worked.

I think the psychological/physiological duality is false. Think of blushing for instance: embarrassment causes vasodilation. I suspect CFS is at its core some type of autonomic dysfunction. This is why many medications do work: some of my patients have had great response to LDN and I'm glad it's been beneficial for you. As for the mindfulness and pacing...yes not everyone gets benefit. A lot of troubleshooting required - it's difficult to figure out for sure. Good for you for doing that though!

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#49

Post by solresol »

lindsaywaterman wrote: post #21

Physician here. Imo CFS is best understood as the endpoint of an evolution within the nervous system that is increasingly called "central sensitization syndrome." (CSS) This syndrome is caused by a chronic dissociative or avoidant stress response, usually having it's origin in early childhood adversity. Prior to developing CFS, most individuals have other manifestations of CSS, such as IBS, chronic pain, TMD, etc. Ev…

What you describe does not match my experience at all.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#50

Post by ljf »

mjsweet wrote: post #7

I've battled with CFS/ME multiple times in my life, each triggered by different ailments. First, it was Epstein-Barr at the end of my tenth grade, leading to two solid years of chronic CFS. Then, at 31, Chicken Pox knocked me out for roughly 18 to 24 months. More recently, from January to August 2021, I experienced "Long Covid," and this July, a bout with RSV left me grappling with CFS once again. My symptoms include…

The garlic is very interesting - given some of the 'blood clotting' theories about long covid - really hoping it brings you long term recovery.
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