Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather • Hacker News Board

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#411

Post by batch12 » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:03 PM UTC

amrocha wrote: post #406

batch12 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if hope is enough. I don't think people are willing to be miserable for hope- especially when there is no reasonable expectation that others would stop.

I disagree that you need to be miserable. Humans are very good at getting used to their circumstances, and some of the changes would be net positives on the personal level. I know I'm way happier now that I ride my bicycle as my main method of transportation. But also, climate change is already making us miserable. I went on vacation and it was impossible to be outside between 12-3, so we had to plan our days around…

What works for you doesn't work for everyone. There are many, many places in the world where using a bicycle as a main method of transportation would be impractical and miserable. Short of force, this isn't going to happen.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#412

Post by peoplefromibiza » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:04 PM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #243

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's relatively simple (though not necessarily easy) to live in a cold area if you have access to furs and fuel. there must be a reason why the coldest areas on the Planet are deserted... > Trying to survive in an area where the wet bulb temperature is over 35 degrees And yet ancient Egyptians did it 4 thousands years ago. > That reads as gibberish My phone has an Italian dictionary. Fixed it.

> And yet ancient Egyptians did it 4 thousands years ago. Have you any evidence of Egypt having those kinds of wet bulb temperatures back then? It's physically impossible to survive high wet bulb temperatures even with an unlimited supply of water without some other form of cooling (i.e. not based on air movement such as fans) as water/sweat evaporation isn't effective. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_tem…

> Have you any evidence of Egypt having those kinds of wet bulb temperatures back then?

Have you got evidence of climate change causing those kinds of wet bulb temperatures in large populated areas?

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#413

Post by ricardobeat » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #230

ricardobeat wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s extremely depressing that you can’t have more than a couple paragraphs’ discussion without extremism kicking in. No, thinking people shouldn’t drive a 2-ton vehicle for 40km to buy 200g of Wagyu every other day is not the same as planning mass murder. Your comment is inflammatory and delusional.

>people shouldn’t drive a 2-ton vehicle for 40km to buy 200g of Wagyu every other day Your example describes a fantasy. The vast majority of people do not travel anywhere close to 40km to buy groceries. Even in a car-centric country like America, the average driver travels just 4km. If someone has to travel 40km or more to get to a grocery store, it's because they live rural. People who travel that far for groceries…

That was hyperbole.

But also not entirely unrealistic or uncommon, and I live in an european city with good public transport. If I want to buy something special like a good cut of beef, go to an asian market, I’ll be doing a 30km roundtrip by car.

From what I’ve seen a roundtrip to Walmart in the US for weekly groceries can be in the same ballpark - even in the city, since the larger stores are always on the outskirts.

You can keep raising strawmen, but the extremism is going from a suggestion of reduced car traffic and reduced meat consumption, to accusations of not caring about lives and mass murder.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#414

Post by peoplefromibiza » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #287

jokoon wrote: post #98

It's odd how everytime somebody mentions slashing oil production by 50 or 75%, people are immediately up in arms. Same for red meat or cheap air travel. Western rich countries have too many really spoiled consumers. It's weird to say, but we should crash the economy if it can slow down climate change. I mean there are plenty people in other parts of the world who don't have such a high standard of living, and it's no…

> It's weird to say, but we should crash the economy if it can slow down climate change. I mean there are plenty people in other parts of the world who don't have such a high standard of living, and it's not that big of a problem. The thing is, we have no reason to believe halting climate will do anything other than boost the economy. The reason for inaction despite the fact that it’ll make tons of new jobs, and remo…

> We could see huge reductions in our food-related emissions simply by eating pork or chicken

that would be great, if only more than 2.5 billion people did not eat pork for various religious or cultural restrictions.

food restrictions are among some of the most difficult habits to overcome, proven by the fact that they resisted for thousands of years.

we could also eat insects or worms, but we don't it, what makes you think that 1.8 billion Muslims would suddenly start eating pork like it's not a big deal?

In my opinion Paracelsus said it right: it's the dose that makes the poisons.

Americans who eat the most red meat per capita (a lot more than anyone else), could eat less meat in general.

How?

Simple: by making it a lot more expensive.

Between 2020 to 2022, Europeans consumed 32.4 kilos of pork, while the per capita consumption of beef was significantly lower, at 10.3 kilos in total.

How Much Beef Does the Average American Eat? The average U.S. consumer eats 25.9 kilograms (57.1 pounds) of beef per year.

For the last 60 years, U.S. meat consumption has risen steadily. In 1961, the average was 93.7 kilograms (206.5 pounds) of meat per year. By 2020, that number had risen to 126.73 kilograms (279.4 pounds) per year.

The most notable period bucking this trend of growth is from 2008 to 2013, a decrease that likely resulted from the 2008 recession.

proving that the economic angle is effective in reducing the consumption of meat in the US.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#415

Post by tigen » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

Projectiboga wrote: post #157

echelon wrote: post #4

We're technically still in an ice age [1]. How far does this need to go to reach the end of that ice age [2]? The Cretaceous period was over ten degrees warmer than our current period [3,4,5]. It supported a lot (though much different) biodiversity. How long would it take us to push into these temperature ranges? And how long to exceed them? How much species diversity will we lose at each half degree increment from t…

Here is a climate professor's site he and his associates are warning of imminent mass human extinction. https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/ Dig back through his posts they are horrifying.

As far as I can tell this site is run by an amateur, not a "climate professor".

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#416

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #412

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet ancient Egyptians did it 4 thousands years ago. Have you any evidence of Egypt having those kinds of wet bulb temperatures back then? It's physically impossible to survive high wet bulb temperatures even with an unlimited supply of water without some other form of cooling (i.e. not based on air movement such as fans) as water/sweat evaporation isn't effective. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_tem…

> Have you any evidence of Egypt having those kinds of wet bulb temperatures back then? Have you got evidence of climate change causing those kinds of wet bulb temperatures in large populated areas?

From https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jul/31/why-you-need...:

> One 2015 study concluded extremes are likely to approach and exceed 35C in the region around the Arabian Gulf towards the end of the century if greenhouse gas emissions are not reined in, posing questions for human habitability there.

> In 2020, research found that some coastal subtropical locations have already experienced WBTs of 35C, albeit only for a few hours.

> “Previous studies projected that this would happen several decades from now, but this shows it’s happening right now,” said lead author Colin Raymond, a climate scientist at Nasa’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory. “The times these events last will increase and the areas they affect will grow in direct correlation with global warming.”

> The study also found that globally, the number of times that a WBT of 30C was reached – still considered an extreme humidity and heat event – more than doubled between 1979 and 2017. There were about 1,000 occurrences of a 31C WBT, and about a dozen above 35C, in Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Australia.

There's some recent information and investigation here too https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/interacti...

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#417

Post by kurthr » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:25 PM UTC

IAmGraydon wrote: post #295

kurthr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and based on that chart are now hotter than any time in the last 100k years, heading into the last few million. A few 10s (of million) years at +25c are going to be the "new normal"? I'm trying to understand the point. The rate of change is quite dramatic, and the last time (Eemian) there was anything like this there were "rapid" 12c oscillations. Humans didn't exist. I suspect most current plant/animal species a…

>and based on that chart are now hotter than any time in the last 100k years, heading into the last few million. A few 10s (of million) years at +25c are going to be the "new normal"? No, the chart does not say that. The 2050 and 2100 dots are projections from the IPOC RCP8.5 “high emissions” scenario. Also, absolutely nothing on that says we’re going to +25c. That part of the chart (that goes to 25) is in F, and it…

Thank you for pointing out that the right side of the graph is labeled in F and the left label is in C.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#418

Post by warning26 » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:33 PM UTC

ethanbond wrote: post #290

dharma1 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read somewhere that fine water mist sprayed into the atmosphere may have the same reflective effect as sulphur from the shipping industry without the negatives. I’m fairly certain we will resort to this type of geo engineering soon - cutting down energy consumption is not a viable path, it’s just not going to happen. Quite the contrary, humanity’s energy consumption is likely to grow a lot. I agree with you about k…

No one knows what fine water mist sprayed into the atmosphere would do. Good god let's not bank on these ridiculous massive-scale hail Marys that may just as well cause more damage than good.

This was basically the plot of that movie Snowpiercer; we accidentally geoengineer a second ice age.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#419

Post by micromacrofoot » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

jmondi wrote: post #115

micromacrofoot wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I won’t stop because they won’t stop” is going to destroy the planet

It is a collective effort. If you don’t realize that, you will not get anywhere in your goals of reducing climate change.

collective efforts don’t always start simultaneously!

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#420

Post by vel0city » Sun, Sep 10, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

kmeisthax wrote: post #341

vel0city wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More jobs = more consumption = more resources. Their idea is for people to consume far less, therefore own less. If people own and consume less there's less incomes. Don't own a house, only rent a small apartment in a dense urban setting. Don't own the means to your own transportation, only get by with walking and transit. Price meats so high most people can't afford them regularly.

Two out of the three things you mention are so 'undesirable' that the few dense walkable urban areas in the US are more expensive than living in the suburbs. There's a reason why left-wingers use the word "gentrification" a whole lot. In many cases suburban home and car ownership is actually cheaper than the traditional urban lifestyle, for various reasons including but not limited to: 1. Supply being limited because…

"America" didn't outlaw the expansion, the cities did it to themselves. The cities are in charge of their zoning and planning, not the federal government. They could allow for more density, but the voters choose no. Just look at all the nimbys fighting apartment complexes; are they all goons from faceless corporations and the federal government or are they just the local people currently living there expressing their choice?

It's not like the government subsidies and tax credits exist even though nobody wants them. They exist because, once again, that's what voters have suggested they want when they go to the polls.

I do agree, cities should be able to expand their density. I think in an ideal world people should be able to choose to live in generally affordable forms of whatever housing they want. And that's the thing, I'd like to be able to choose the housing style I think is good for my family. Many here would argue I shouldn't be able to make that choice, or that some choices (like single family homes) should be made so expensive most people can't afford it.