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Show HN: I built a Python web framework

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Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#61
Honest question, does performance really matter all that much for a web framework?

Internet latencies should be in single digit to low double digit milliseconds range.

I would expect the slowest of web frameworks in bash to parse and route an http request in 1ms, so even if you replaced that with a hand written custom assembly version running at 1nanosecond, that would still be dwarfed by the networking jitter.

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#62

I am waiting for someone to finally give me just a wysiwyg tool to make web pages and apps so I don't need to program anymore. I just want to make content, not make a machine to then make my content with. It's like building a wood cutting machine when I just want to be warm in the winter.

WYSIWYG UI-builder with LLM-based ability to describe what you want. "Form with username and password and when you submit it creates an account".

This won’t ever work as long as LLMs are non deterministic

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what he’s going for I guess but “this isn’t much of an achievement” is sociopathic

What’s your honest appraisal of this code? Would you ever under any circumstances use it? If not, then be honest and tell them to keep pushing. The quote is that it is not much “yet”. It’s a good first step, but having too high of a self-appraisal is just as bad as having too low. As an elementary school kid I worked for several years on a BASIC game where you could fly an ASCII art ship around the screen. It was not…

You don't know anything about this kid. You definitely don't know that what they need in their life is discouragement. Don't conflate their childhood with yours.

If a 15 year old wanted to show me a project, and I wanted to help them understand what would improve it, I'd ask them questions and engage them in a Socratic process to lead them that direction.

I wouldn't tell them that their work was trash. That would either discourage them from doing more projects, showing their projects to me, or both.

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#64
post #55
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a DSL to facilitate building CRUD. I wrote one in PHP and 3 devs were able to build and maintain a 800 page CRUD system with it (still going strong, makes a ton of money). It has complex business logic, is fully unit testable and allows for escape hatches when needed. I'm in the process of rebuilding the DSL in C# with the lessons learned (because Entity Framework is awesome). And might open source.

Do you have any way to contact you? Would love to hear more about this. Also a C# developer and love EF. I think the standard library from Microsoft in general is the highest quality, most powerful and flexible library that’s out right now. I see so much potential to make a system that solves the 90% of use cases more simply, with enough flexibility to drop down lower when needed, and I think C# would be a great tool…

Hey! It's exciting to see other's have similar ideas to boost productivity.

About the framework, I just read in a comment below about Java's Vaadin framework and it looks very similar to what I made in PHP. It's code that generate UI.

See https://vaadin.com/docs/latest/components/crud

Please check my profile in a month. I'll publish contact info.

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#65

I am waiting for someone to finally give me just a wysiwyg tool to make web pages and apps so I don't need to program anymore. I just want to make content, not make a machine to then make my content with. It's like building a wood cutting machine when I just want to be warm in the winter.

I’m building that right now. It’s not great (it requires you to clone the repo and build your site from that) but it does currently support gallery and blog pages. Very alpha but it’s a pet project I’m enjoying. It also handles deploying to an S3 bucket, and purging a cloud front distribution (instructions for setting that up included too).

https://github.com/dclowd9901/posse

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#66
post #54

I am waiting for someone to finally give me just a wysiwyg tool to make web pages and apps so I don't need to program anymore. I just want to make content, not make a machine to then make my content with. It's like building a wood cutting machine when I just want to be warm in the winter.

While I get the sentiment, as someone who knows CSS and HTML5 well, I can't help but feel there are reasons why this can't work. Aside my web involvement I did a lot of print design as well. For print wysiwyg is perfectly fine. But how would you wysiwyg for a medium that is inherently multifaced? I mean your window could be small, or huge, portrait or landscape, it could have colors or not, heck it could even be prin…

Jesus.... Visual Basic did this in the 80s and 90s just fine. Flash did it in the early 2000s.

It is doable, but it requires a stable runtime. Just the HTML/CSS ecosystem is too flaky, and HTML/CSSS is a poorly design system for this type of interactive systems/apps.

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#67
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically the ui layer and the backend layer which and the operational layer need to be combined into one seamless tool. Right now you have the write a "frontend" and a "db connection + backend logic layer". Solving this “problem” just doesn’t seem like a good use of a time. There are now 4738484 different viable ways to build a website, adding another way is just a waste of everyone’s time

I'd argue web dev is largely a solved problem for large complex apps, but largely unsolved for simpler use cases. The problem is the amount of boilerplate and tool complexity involved. In a large project, the boilerplate can become a small fraction of total work put in (hopefully), with most to the work spent expressing the logic of the application. In smaller projects, the boilerplate can be the vast majority of the…

> I'd argue web dev is largely a solved problem for large complex apps, but largely unsolved for simpler use cases.

I have a good example of a small-scale problem that's a b** to solve with web technology.

In a nutshell, I have an application which sends batches of data to a remote client. On the far end, I want a little web app that pays attention to the incoming queue of batches, display that list of batches in a browser, each batch with a progress bar, and be able to click on a batch to start the next stage of processing it when the batch is ready.

making real-timeish display updates should be a canned function but there is a lot of frontend/backend stuff going on to make it work.

> I think further work in this space is warranted.

what he said.

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#68
post #66
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I get the sentiment, as someone who knows CSS and HTML5 well, I can't help but feel there are reasons why this can't work. Aside my web involvement I did a lot of print design as well. For print wysiwyg is perfectly fine. But how would you wysiwyg for a medium that is inherently multifaced? I mean your window could be small, or huge, portrait or landscape, it could have colors or not, heck it could even be prin…

Jesus.... Visual Basic did this in the 80s and 90s just fine. Flash did it in the early 2000s. It is doable, but it requires a stable runtime. Just the HTML/CSS ecosystem is too flaky, and HTML/CSSS is a poorly design system for this type of interactive systems/apps.

I was gonna say, I did some of this with VB3, and VB6 definitely could do it all. CSS & HTML are ancient technology limping on with an entire industry of people who know its dark magic keeping it afloat.

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#69
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically the ui layer and the backend layer which and the operational layer need to be combined into one seamless tool. Right now you have the write a "frontend" and a "db connection + backend logic layer". Solving this “problem” just doesn’t seem like a good use of a time. There are now 4738484 different viable ways to build a website, adding another way is just a waste of everyone’s time

I'd argue web dev is largely a solved problem for large complex apps, but largely unsolved for simpler use cases. The problem is the amount of boilerplate and tool complexity involved. In a large project, the boilerplate can become a small fraction of total work put in (hopefully), with most to the work spent expressing the logic of the application. In smaller projects, the boilerplate can be the vast majority of the…

Appreciate the comments. Guess what I'm frustrated with is the misallocation of smart people to real problems. But this isn't a Soviet economy, which I'm also grateful for.

Re: Show HN: I built a Python web framework

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WYSIWYG UI-builder with LLM-based ability to describe what you want. "Form with username and password and when you submit it creates an account".

This won’t ever work as long as LLMs are non deterministic

Temperature = 0
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