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SIM Cards Must Die

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Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#31

Post by PanMan »

c1sc0 wrote: post #19
Loic wrote: post #2

I suppose you live in the US, with only a couple of huge carriers. I live in Germany, I am French, travelling a lot between France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Switzerland. I am so happy with the SIM card system. I can switch carrier if I want easily (swap the SIM card) but especially: I do not care when I travel which carrier my phone will pick. It will work, nothing to do and I know what it will cost in advan…

I don't think you love simcards, I think you love the freedom to switch & a simcard is just the way you get that freedom right now . From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers?

You don't have to reboot your phone (e.g. the iPhone doesn't need a reboot when switching SIM cards). But a lot of phones hide the SIM under the battery, and your phone won't keep running with its battery off.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#32

Post by ragmondo »

stoolpigeon wrote: post #25
ragmondo wrote: post #20

Hmmmm. Here's my post from 9 days ago : http://ragmondocom.appspot.com/2012/03/Who-needs-SIM-cards - I propose virtual downloadable SIM cards....

NLIps says it below - and I agree - the problem I see with this 'virtual sim' is that it is less secure.

Not if you use the same ssl certification authority mechanism that browsers use (obviously with some improvements to avoid common pitfalls). In fact, I would argue that it would be more secure (with revocation lists etc etc). Gone are the days that your phone can't do rapid handshaking / crypto etc etc.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#33

Post by masklinn »

c1sc0 wrote: post #19
Loic wrote: post #2

I suppose you live in the US, with only a couple of huge carriers. I live in Germany, I am French, travelling a lot between France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Switzerland. I am so happy with the SIM card system. I can switch carrier if I want easily (swap the SIM card) but especially: I do not care when I travel which carrier my phone will pick. It will work, nothing to do and I know what it will cost in advan…

I don't think you love simcards, I think you love the freedom to switch & a simcard is just the way you get that freedom right now . From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers?

> From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution.

Actually from a UX perspective sim cards are a pretty strong solution because there is a clear and simple 1:1 mapping between a physical object and a carrier. That's as simple an UX as can be: if I want to use carrier A I use SIM A, if I want to use carrier B I use SIM B.

> For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers?

I don't know, do you? I don't. I just take out the iPhone's SIM tray, replace the SIM and put the tray back in.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#34

Post by jeffpalmer »

While the concept is solid, getting carriers to go along with this is going to be impossible I would imagine. The other issue at hand is hardware pricing, especially for US consumers.

In the US, carriers love to lock their customers in by SIM locking their subsidized hardware and customers have come to expect this low cost subsidized hardware.

If you suddenly switched to a system where hardware was sold at retail cost, there would be a lot of confusion. I am guessing that if you ask the typical US consumer if they would like to buy their iPhone at $199 and commit to a contract or pay $649 for the ability to switch to another carrier at will, they will choose the contract option. It's what they have come to expect.

This type of system seems more suited to work in countries where subscribers already purchase unlocked hardware at full retail prices.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#35

Post by antihero »

Arubis wrote: post #11
LeafStorm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much this. In fact, it's already happening to some extent -- most Verizon phones are sold without a SIM. (At least, not a user-accessible SIM.)

That's been the case for ages because Verizon is a CDMA network, not GSM -- GSM takes SIM cards, while CDMA does not. Different tech. This is likely to shift as V rolls out LTE, which DOES take SIM cards. So we're actually likely to see more intercompatibility as things progress. Except, of course, that everything's still likely to be carrier-locked.

Is there actually any benefit to CDMA?

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#36

Post by kalleboo »

pmjordan wrote: post #27
Arubis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been the case for ages because Verizon is a CDMA network, not GSM -- GSM takes SIM cards, while CDMA does not. Different tech. This is likely to shift as V rolls out LTE, which DOES take SIM cards. So we're actually likely to see more intercompatibility as things progress. Except, of course, that everything's still likely to be carrier-locked.

Pardon my ignorance, but being in Europe means I've never used a 2G CDMA network - the iPhone4S supposedly works for both GSM and CDMA; if you don't get a SIM, does the CDMA module only work if you bought the phone from a CDMA network operator, and not if you bought it from Apple directly?

> does the CDMA module only work if you bought the phone from a CDMA network operator

Yes. They program it with your subscriber number at purchase. Technically they could reprogram phones not sold by them with your subscriber number, but they don't (to force you to give them more money).

There does exist a CDMA version of the SIM (RUIM? something like that). China Mobile uses it, and I think au/kddi do too. American carriers do not.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#37

Post by geon »

masklinn wrote: post #33
c1sc0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you love simcards, I think you love the freedom to switch & a simcard is just the way you get that freedom right now . From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers?

> From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. Actually from a UX perspective sim cards are a pretty strong solution because there is a clear and simple 1:1 mapping between a physical object and a carrier. That's as simple an UX as can be: if I want to use carrier A I use SIM A, if I want to use carrier B I use SIM B. > For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers? I don't know,…

> Actually from a UX perspective sim cards are a pretty strong solution because there is a clear and simple 1:1 mapping between a physical object and a carrier. That's as simple an UX as can be: if I want to use carrier A I use SIM A, if I want to use carrier B I use SIM B.

That must be why it's so common and popular to use physical tokens for the address list too. I really live to sift through the little plastic cards I keep in my pant pocket (careful not to lose one!) to find John Doe, insert it into the phone and reboot, just to make a phone call.

Or not.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#38

Post by lwhi »

PanMan wrote: post #4

I'm afraid if we kill SIM cards, the opposite will happen: your phone will be locked to one network, and switching networks means switching hardware (beyond just the sim). I really like that while traveling I can just buy a local sim, put it in my own phone, and use it. That would only work in these wireframes if all operators would agree to support this. Which I think they won't.

Yep, a SIM card gives freedom from networks and the ability to change numbers easily and use pay as you go services when travelling.

There's no way killing SIM cards would be a good thing.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#39

Post by kalleboo »

"Why isn’t Apple fighting to kill the SIM cards?"

They tried: http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/05/24/apple-wanted-to-...

Personally I'm a big supporter of SIM cards. While competing network systems (CDMA, iDEN) were designed to lock in networks and users to a single vendor, GSM was designed by a consortium of european national telecoms at every single layer to ensure that all the stakeholders (users, telecoms, regulators) had as much interoperability and freedom as possible, and SIM cards are the user's end of that plan.

If Apple implemented his proposal, you can bet iPhone users would only be able to pick special overpriced iPhone plans, instead of just using whatever prepaid plan they want.

Re: SIM Cards Must Die

#40

Post by capecodcarl »

antihero wrote: post #35
Arubis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been the case for ages because Verizon is a CDMA network, not GSM -- GSM takes SIM cards, while CDMA does not. Different tech. This is likely to shift as V rolls out LTE, which DOES take SIM cards. So we're actually likely to see more intercompatibility as things progress. Except, of course, that everything's still likely to be carrier-locked.

Is there actually any benefit to CDMA?

It doesn't interfere with your speakers when transmitting? I'm not sure if this is still the case, but my old AT&T phone would cause my speakers to go haywire when I was about to receive a phone call. Never experienced that with Verizon or Sprint.
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