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An Internet of PHP

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Re: An Internet of PHP

#181

Post by ofrzeta »

hk1337 wrote: post #175
NorwegianDude wrote: post #158

Ironically enough, if people actually tried PHP, many would be amazed, especially at the quality frameworks. Productivity is very high in something like Laravel, and compared to JavaScript frameworks PHP frameworks are much more feature complete and well though out. I'm a big fan of trying out different stacks, and I think a lot of people would love Laravel if they tried it. Give it a shot using PHPStorm and Laravel…

> Laravel IDEA Is that a fork of IntelliJ or did they just usurp the “IDEA” branding from JetBrains? A framework-centric IDE seems silly. Like mini cupcakes.

Unsurprisingly it's a Laravel plugin for IDEA.

https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/13441-laravel-idea

Re: An Internet of PHP

#182

Post by jw1224 »

hk1337 wrote: post #175
NorwegianDude wrote: post #158

Ironically enough, if people actually tried PHP, many would be amazed, especially at the quality frameworks. Productivity is very high in something like Laravel, and compared to JavaScript frameworks PHP frameworks are much more feature complete and well though out. I'm a big fan of trying out different stacks, and I think a lot of people would love Laravel if they tried it. Give it a shot using PHPStorm and Laravel…

> Laravel IDEA Is that a fork of IntelliJ or did they just usurp the “IDEA” branding from JetBrains? A framework-centric IDE seems silly. Like mini cupcakes.

It’s the name of a PhpStorm plugin, which adds extended support for Laravel. PhpStorm is built by JetBrains on IDEA.

Re: An Internet of PHP

#184

Post by jw1224 »

MrVandemar wrote: post #165
NorwegianDude wrote: post #158

Ironically enough, if people actually tried PHP, many would be amazed, especially at the quality frameworks. Productivity is very high in something like Laravel, and compared to JavaScript frameworks PHP frameworks are much more feature complete and well though out. I'm a big fan of trying out different stacks, and I think a lot of people would love Laravel if they tried it. Give it a shot using PHPStorm and Laravel…

Well, I used to do PHP back in the day, and I know the language has changed and evolved a lot, but I've looked at Laravel thinking it would be something cool and interesting and productive, and it seems bewildering and bloated. Doing one simple thing seems to take a mountain of incomprehensible overhead. Not to say it's bad, but even with some experience, I couldn't grok it.

> Doing one simple thing seems to take a mountain of incomprehensible overhead.

If you just need to do one simple thing, don’t use a framework :)

If you need to lots of simple (or complex) things, in an organised manner across a single project, Laravel is great!

(Having said that if you have an example of what you were referring to, I’d be curious)

Re: An Internet of PHP

#185

Post by jw1224 »

severino wrote: post #169
NorwegianDude wrote: post #158

Ironically enough, if people actually tried PHP, many would be amazed, especially at the quality frameworks. Productivity is very high in something like Laravel, and compared to JavaScript frameworks PHP frameworks are much more feature complete and well though out. I'm a big fan of trying out different stacks, and I think a lot of people would love Laravel if they tried it. Give it a shot using PHPStorm and Laravel…

Out of curiosity, in your projects where you use PHP with frameworks such as Laravel, do you do server-side rendering, or SPA applications? I prefer the former but I wonder what's the trend now for the people into Symphony, Laravel, etc.

Laravel has a dedicated marketing page especially about this:

https://laravel.com/frontend

I personally use different approaches in different projects, but it works great both ways. Inertia is really excellent with frontend frameworks like React/Svelte, whilst Blade is brilliant for server-side templating too.

Re: An Internet of PHP

#186

Post by dagw »

nikanj wrote: post #33
nunodonato wrote: post #22

"PHP is dead" is dead. The amount of people praising PHP these days is quite high and increasing. Of course I may also be in a bubble (of php devs), but I have seen a constant increase from JS-people starting to look (and in some cases, convert to) php. Also, many new youtube videos highlighting the new stuff in the language, how modern it is, etc. Honestly, anyone that blindly criticizes or dismisses php these days,…

It’s like meeting someone in 2023 who hates Micro$oft WinBLOWZ. Have they been stuck in stasis for 20 years? What other values from the 9/11 era do they hang on to?

It’s like meeting someone in 2023 who hates Micro$oft WinBLOWZ.

As someone who was on the whole pretty pro Microsoft for the past several years, 2022-2023 was when I started 'hating' Microsoft again. Both today me and year 2000 me would agree that 2020 me was completely wrong about giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt.

Re: An Internet of PHP

#187

Post by prfssnl »

anonymous344 wrote: post #36

php runs securely in 5minutes in any web server 3-10$/month. Every other tech, it's complicated servers or complicated billing, not to mention depencies and build tools. thats why php

True. I setup a woocommerce site for someone 3 years ago, still makes around $1000 a month (pretty good for a small biz in India) and I just helped them downgrade from a $10 digitalocean VPS to a $3 cpanel hosting.

Re: An Internet of PHP

#188

Post by Angostura »

jpalomaki wrote: post #143
csomar wrote: post #119

As an ex-PHP developer (almost 10 years now), I do not miss it. As a language, it is a scripting language with an okay interpreter. But as an eco-system, it is a hot mess. It has both the worst software developers (and I was one of them) as well as the worst clients (and the cheapest, regardless of geography). It is not a surprise that PHP is running the web. That's because WordPress made sites/e-commerce accessible…

PHP was the Visual Basic 6 for web. People without proper training and theoretical knowledge just went and did stuff.

Empowered a generation to get stuff done.

Re: An Internet of PHP

#189

Post by badcppdev »

zmxz wrote: post #130
voidwtf wrote: post #117

This is great, and I'm glad for the PHP developers out there. But if I go job hunting, it's not PHP skills that offer the highest earning potential. At least not that I've encountered. How much revenue generation occurs on PHP? I'll cede the argument about the e-commerce platforms and CRMs, but I'm just not convinced that PHP is where a budding developer should be focusing their efforts. You enter the business/corpor…

I was job hunting this year, I'm a long-time PHP developer (since '99). It wasn't the language, it's everything around it. It's knowing frontend and how it works, it's knowing about cloud/operating systems, databases, 3rd party integration, IAM, SSO and the list goes on. These skills are applicable everywhere, next to any language. Compensation I was offered revolved around the ability to be non-invasive towards youn…

So are you saying that you didn't see a salary difference between PHP roles and C# or Java roles? I've said before that I think modern PHP + tools can be very productive but smart/good developers will find that CV/Salary pressures steers them away from PHP.

Re: An Internet of PHP

#190

Post by JonathanBeuys »

jw1224 wrote: post #179
JonathanBeuys wrote: post #152

Unfortunately, the current maintainers of PHP have not learned from the success of it. And are driving PHP into the direction of having the rigid structure that Java has. It is so successful because people who build new things are different from people who are paid to maintain old things. That is why WordPress, Wikipedia and countless other successful internet projects have been created using PHP and not using Java.…

PHP dev since 5.0 here. I think the severity of these breaking changes is overstated. I’ve been able to keep several large business-critical projects up-to-date for years, even up to PHP 8.3, with little to no breaking changes encountered. PHP 8 didn’t really break adding properties to objects dynamically, it just deprecated one bad-practice way of doing so. I remember worrying about this before upgrading, across my…

I think you missed my main point: That people are different.

I have not doubted that there are people who like the more rigid structure which the current maintainers push for. I actually mentioned that.

But the success of PHP comes from the people who like PHP the way it was. Empowering them to write their own web projects with the least amount of code and bloat.

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