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Remove TypeScript

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Re: Remove TypeScript

#121

Post by _phred »

vlod wrote: post #111
dmux wrote: post #91

It would be interesting to track the bug rate after this commit and compare it to the bug rate in the Typescript version of the code base.

I expect they have a very large unit/integration test suite. Rails was the first (or very early pioneers) of doing TDD.

A very cursory internet search shows that your history is entirely wrong:

https://agileforall.com/history-of-tdd-as-told-in-quotes/

Djikstra proposed the idea in the 1970s. Rails did not in any way pioneer TDD. They were very vocal about it but “[stood] on the shoulders of giants.”

Re: Remove TypeScript

#122

Post by vlod »

_phred wrote: post #121
vlod wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect they have a very large unit/integration test suite. Rails was the first (or very early pioneers) of doing TDD.

A very cursory internet search shows that your history is entirely wrong: https://agileforall.com/history-of-tdd-as-told-in-quotes/ Djikstra proposed the idea in the 1970s. Rails did not in any way pioneer TDD. They were very vocal about it but “[stood] on the shoulders of giants.”

Sure, everything could probably be tracked back to the good golden years, but who was really doing TDD before Rails?

I was doing Java back (during Kent Beck days of XP etc) and although I had heard of JUnit (and even heard Kent Beck preach about this at a conference) and it sounded cool, no team or company I knew was using it seriously.

It's only when Rails came around where if (I believe if memory serves me right) the default controller/views generators created tests automatically. Ruby being a dynamic language and no compile step, you couldn't prove correctness before running it, meant you were skating on thin ice if you didn't write tests.

Re: Remove TypeScript

#123

Post by vlod »

vlod wrote: post #122
_phred wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very cursory internet search shows that your history is entirely wrong: https://agileforall.com/history-of-tdd-as-told-in-quotes/ Djikstra proposed the idea in the 1970s. Rails did not in any way pioneer TDD. They were very vocal about it but “[stood] on the shoulders of giants.”

Sure, everything could probably be tracked back to the good golden years, but who was really doing TDD before Rails? I was doing Java back (during Kent Beck days of XP etc) and although I had heard of JUnit (and even heard Kent Beck preach about this at a conference) and it sounded cool, no team or company I knew was using it seriously. It's only when Rails came around where if (I believe if memory serves me right) t…

> “[stood] on the shoulders of giants.”

That's pretty much a given.

I know someone people that worked at Xerox (when Steve Jobs visited) and they pretty much invented everything. lol.

I've been told stories that pretty much technology after Xerox is a derivative from that time. Sure, I take that with a pinch of salt, but I half/mostly believe it.

Re: Remove TypeScript

#124

Post by BrendanEich »

favorited wrote: post #89

> letting the rest of us enjoy JavaScript in the glorious spirit it was originally designed Pretty funny, considering one of Eich's regrets about JavaScript is allowing things like `1 == "1"`

If "originally designed" refers to the ten-days-in-May Mocha then == on unlike type operands evaluated to false. I've told why this changed later many times, e.g., https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1440088359473324036.

Re: Remove TypeScript

#125

Post by rezo2 »

acdha wrote: post #115
rezo2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also you don't write code that your processor executes and, at best, you use a layer of complexity known as assembly language. That's a shame!

… and that's why decades of work went into things like making better debugging and analysis tools, things like symbol files, etc. One of the appeals of the web was that you didn't need to deal with that but using a compiler of some sort makes that necessary again. It mostly works, most of the time, but it's never been that hard to run into some case where it doesn't. I don't think it's a deal breaker but I do conside…

Modern web requires compiler/bundler/minimizer for js code any way, whether you use typescript or not. And this will probably never change. Rather, the web will move to use of something like webassembly.

Re: Remove TypeScript

#126

Post by acdha »

rezo2 wrote: post #125
acdha wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… and that's why decades of work went into things like making better debugging and analysis tools, things like symbol files, etc. One of the appeals of the web was that you didn't need to deal with that but using a compiler of some sort makes that necessary again. It mostly works, most of the time, but it's never been that hard to run into some case where it doesn't. I don't think it's a deal breaker but I do conside…

Modern web requires compiler/bundler/minimizer for js code any way, whether you use typescript or not. And this will probably never change. Rather, the web will move to use of something like webassembly.

That’s not true in general: the modern web is quite capable with native browser functionality and many apps don’t need more. Tools like React do but that’s because they’re designed around IE6, which was a very different era.

Re: Remove TypeScript

#127

Post by rezo2 »

acdha wrote: post #126
rezo2 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern web requires compiler/bundler/minimizer for js code any way, whether you use typescript or not. And this will probably never change. Rather, the web will move to use of something like webassembly.

That’s not true in general: the modern web is quite capable with native browser functionality and many apps don’t need more. Tools like React do but that’s because they’re designed around IE6, which was a very different era.

Can you show me few examples of production apps in wild web which use only native js?
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