Texas just got closer to blackouts than it has since 2021. What happened? • Hacker News Board

Re: Texas just got closer to blackouts than it has since 2021. What happened?

#211

Post by 4567546 » Thu, Sep 07, 2023, 10:19 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #91

actionfromafar wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I have to set up shop in Texas with some space heaters and claim my bitcoin energy credits!

Yeah, but if they pay you to not mine Bitcoin and then find out you're not mining Bitcoin, won't you be in trouble?

Correct me if I am wrong but I think you mean "And then find out you're mining Bitcoin" but I am not sure. Assuming that is what you meant ERCOT is able to remotely monitor the load and verify if they are shedding load or not. The miners just sort of exist on the grid and it gives ERCOT the ability to control inbound and outbound capacity which is how I think they are able to smooth out the electrical demands or whatever. It is also possible that ERCOT knows granular details about the load since these miners (known as an ASIC) consume a set amount of power from the wall. But they don't need that much detail, they only need to see the total load from the miners come down in order to know that miners are doing as they should.

It is all really new stuff to me but interesting. I think a lot of negative attention takes the light because the state of Texas is a political dumpster fire and I would be incredibly suspicious of anything the state tries to do, especially when it comes to something adjacent to a trendy industry that has made big news for scams after scams lately. But from what I am able to gather so far, there might actually be something here.

I do agree with one commenter in that I am not entirely sure its needed to provide payment to these guys, but maybe they are not able to be profitable with mining and selling Bitcoin alone, or need to hedge against the volatility of the price and payments help with both of those things.

Re: Texas just got closer to blackouts than it has since 2021. What happened?

#212

Post by Retric » Thu, Sep 07, 2023, 11:47 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #136

Retric wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You achieve similar results by simply charging such customers current market rates. Nobody is going to be mining Bitcoin while paying 2.50$/kWh. That’s the objection, it’s simply a waste of money.

You don’t get the same outcome. Consider the payment as the cost of maintaining demand during periods where you don’t want it. It's like a factory that can only produce 100 widgets each week, nothing more or less. Ideally you want to always sell 100 widgets each week (supply = demand). You could build a smaller factor that only makes 60 widgets, but the cost per widget would be 50% higher and at market rates you can'…

“If suddenly the demand from smaller customers hits 90 widgets one week.”

Demand and price are linked. If you’re selling 40 units a week at 10$ and demand increase to 90 units @ 10$ that doesn’t force you to sell at 10$, you can spike prices to 50$ and suddenly people aren’t trying to buy 90 units.

Re: Texas just got closer to blackouts than it has since 2021. What happened?

#213

Post by refurb » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 12:12 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #212

refurb wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t get the same outcome. Consider the payment as the cost of maintaining demand during periods where you don’t want it. It's like a factory that can only produce 100 widgets each week, nothing more or less. Ideally you want to always sell 100 widgets each week (supply = demand). You could build a smaller factor that only makes 60 widgets, but the cost per widget would be 50% higher and at market rates you can'…

“If suddenly the demand from smaller customers hits 90 widgets one week.” Demand and price are linked. If you’re selling 40 units a week at 10$ and demand increase to 90 units @ 10$ that doesn’t force you to sell at 10$, you can spike prices to 50$ and suddenly people aren’t trying to buy 90 units.

But this is demand like residential A/C. It's not good business to deny those customers electricity.

Re: Texas just got closer to blackouts than it has since 2021. What happened?

#214

Post by zackmorris » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 2:30 AM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #205

zackmorris wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid that this is something we'll have to agree to disagree on. It's not really possible to write about this without sounding political, but the article covers a problem of political origin. So I'll do my best here to stay objective. The left is fairly aligned today along a number of ideological lines. Basically all democrats want renewable energy, recycling, regulated natural monopolies instead of privatizatio…

Thank you for the thoughtful response. For the most part you are correct. I do want to stress though that while I agree with you on many of the issues on a whole, I look at them from a slightly different perspective. I'll use myself as an example. I live in Florida so I can identify with your friend and insurance. My political leanings have shifted as I have gotten older and had kids. I voted Dem religiously my entir…

Hey fair enough. For what it's worth, I agree with much of what you're saying as well.

Having grown up in a red state and having conservative leanings around self-reliance, even though at a national level I prefer some liberal bureaucracy to keep the system running, because that's beyond me. If the system worked as the founding fathers intended, we'd be able to rely on republican representation to take care of business for us so that we wouldn't have to be as personally involved democratically. The loss of that basic trust and civil discourse really irks me. Especially in recent years, as you said.

I don't have kids, but I have watched my more political friends on social media cool their jets a little since January 6, I think due to family pressure. It seems to be slowly dawning on them that the problems we're facing transcend politics. None of us want to leave future generations saddled with unplayable debts and environmental collapse. But sadly there's not much we can do about that in the short term. So we'll probably have to work through these wedge issues one by one and put it all on the table to reach some sort of consensus or compromise through political horse trading. And that's not a bad thing.

I keep writing and deleting this paragraph, so I think I'll just leave it at that. Thank you as well for responding in depth. I wish I could leave you with the last word, but didn't want to leave you hanging!

Re: Texas just got closer to blackouts than it has since 2021. What happened?

#215

Post by Retric » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 12:42 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #213

Retric wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If suddenly the demand from smaller customers hits 90 widgets one week.” Demand and price are linked. If you’re selling 40 units a week at 10$ and demand increase to 90 units @ 10$ that doesn’t force you to sell at 10$, you can spike prices to 50$ and suddenly people aren’t trying to buy 90 units.

But this is demand like residential A/C. It's not good business to deny those customers electricity.

There’s no denying involved in setting prices higher.

Electrify customers pay a premium to have a fixed rate. Customers swap to market rates because they can save a little money on average and significantly more if they delay use to cheaper periods. Such as plugging in an EV when you get home but only charging it from 12pm to 4am or whatever.