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UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

theregister.com

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Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#121

Post by kwhitefoot »

master-lincoln wrote: post #92
jacquesm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a large degree we have all of those, I'm not sure which countries rank better on those parameters but there can't be all that many of them. - #6 press freedom ranking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index - #9 freedom house https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores - #11 freedom of speech https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries... And so on. Now: this isn't sayi…

Totally agree with you. OPs complaint about the police being able to gather private information of their citizens without a judge having to agree to it first might be seen as violating separation of powers, but as long as a judge still decides what the punishment is after seeing the evidence, I merely see this as a state not respecting individual's privacy, which is probably not a common thing to require for a democr…

> a state not respecting individual's privacy, which is probably not a common thing to require for a democracy.

Surely invasion of privacy is a violation of the CHARTER OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION.

" Article 7

Respect for private and family life

Everyone has the right to respect for his or her private and family life, home and communications.

Article 8

Protection of personal data

1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.

2. Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law. Everyone has the right of access to data which has been collected concerning him or her, and the right to have it rectified.

3. Compliance with these rules shall be subject to control by an independent authority."

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#122

Post by DonaldFisk »

sjducb wrote: post #85
tescocles wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close. The specific case I know you're talking about is the woman who was in an exclusion zone that was in place to stop people harassing women entering an abortion clinic. If she doesn't want "praying silently in her head" to be interpreted as harassment, maybe she should think about the behaviour she and her cohorts have engaged in that might have lead to this interpretation. Sure, you can disagree with th…

This is a common misunderstanding. Harassing people near abortion clinics is a separate offense. The lady in question has harassed people in the past, but she was specifically arrested and charged for prayer in this case. This offense of prayer is separate to her harassment of people. It’s like if you had drugs in your pocket while harassing someone. They’re separate offenses. This video explains the situation and re…

Thanks for providing the reference. In the specific case referred to, she was acquitted: https://news.yahoo.com/british-woman-priest-acquitted-charge..., https://adf.uk/not-guilty/

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#123

Post by darkclouds »

bananapub wrote: post #115
darkclouds wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HMRC can do the most unrestricted spy on the British population, and there is a lot of data sharing between all the different parts of the state, ie HMRC, Police, NHS etc etc. Any employee of the state can spy on you and the press also do a fair bit of spying on the population. Its a national past time when thinking of curtain twitchers and neighbourhood watch schemes.

> Any employee of the state can spy on you come on mate, get your head straight.

You really dont have a clue do you! Every part of the state you interact with takes notes, and the security services have access to it when they want it, bent judges do exist you know, and then they via Special Branch direct the Police.

When is an anonymous tip off by the public, just a cover for the state. They cant do it to everyone as the game would be up, but there is much more surveillance than you realise.

Alot of my relatives worked for the state, and as a kid I over heard alot!

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#124

Post by tcldr »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #58
bananapub wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

christ alive buddy. the royal family costs the UK tax payer ~100m a year[0], which is about the cost of the three nuclear bombs in the US or less than one of the ill-advised F-32 purchases Australia is making. it's also maybe a 1/10th of the amount of money stolen by Tory mates for their various PPE crimes during the early pandemic. every country has very very dumb shit they piss money up the wall over, but it's not…

That's ~100m that could be put towards things that actually help people and improve peoples lives.

You can argue that even greater than the tourism revenue they generate (which is significant) it's the soft power they yield; all the heads of state want to grab a selfie with Lizzie, less so with Rishi. (Time will tell with Charles.)

I don't doubt you're well intentioned, but there's probably more useful things to be fighting over. Especially as what you're fighting for will generate negligible incomes at best and negative incomes at worst. The last thing the UK needs after Brexit is a referendum on becoming a republic.

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#125

Post by growse »

sjducb wrote: post #103
flir wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone wants to jump straight to the order itself, it's the first link under that youtube video. > the council is satisfied on reasonable grounds that there are a number of activities, carried out or are likely to be carried out in a public space namely the area within and surrounding Station Road, Birmingham, B30, shown outlined on the map attached ( the restricted area) that have had, or are likely to have, a de…

By specifically calling out prayer the order does ban prayer... In that case the woman was arrested for silently praying by herself. Her prayer was to stop the abortion clinic, but it was silent and in her own head. I understand that the intent of the law is to ban prayer near an abortion clinic to stop harassment, but they have banned prayer. (I support everything else in that order, I’m pro choice. I just don’t thi…

If she was "silently praying by herself" in her own house, or literally most other places in the country, she wouldn't have been arrested.

The context matters.

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#126

Post by growse »

sjducb wrote: post #116
pcrh wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any form of harassment is illegal. See the pics I posted in an edit above; the protestors make their opinions clear to visitors to the clinic, even while being silent.

Do you agree that the UK has banned some silent prayer? Do you think it is right that silent prayer was banned in this case? This whole discussion started because people from other countries didn’t believe that the UK would ban silent prayer.

> Do you agree that the UK has banned some silent prayer?

This is true in the same sense that the UK has also banned breathing, because murdering people is illegal and some people happen to be breathing whilst doing their murdering.

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#127

Post by PrimeMcFly »

tcldr wrote: post #120
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What interest do UK authorities have in being so petty as to charge people for 'stealing' less than 10p in electricity? I'd say the answers are related.

> I'd say the answers are related. How so?

Provide the answer to the question I asked and we can discuss it.

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#128

Post by PrimeMcFly »

tcldr wrote: post #124
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ~100m that could be put towards things that actually help people and improve peoples lives.

You can argue that even greater than the tourism revenue they generate (which is significant) it's the soft power they yield; all the heads of state want to grab a selfie with Lizzie, less so with Rishi. (Time will tell with Charles.) I don't doubt you're well intentioned, but there's probably more useful things to be fighting over. Especially as what you're fighting for will generate negligible incomes at best and n…

> I don't doubt you're well intentioned, but there's probably more useful things to be fighting over. Especially as what you're fighting for will generate negligible incomes at best and negative incomes at worst. The last thing the UK needs after Brexit is a referendum on becoming a republic.

I disagree. The UK is still backwards in many ways, hell, they still have an unelected upper house. Getting rid of the monarchy sends a strong message and allows other reforms to follow in its wake.

I'm also skeptical the monarchy generate any tourism. People come to see the palace that would remain regardless, and the funny guards that trample over children. They don't come to the UK for that stuff, they see it while they are there, and they certainly don't come hoping to see a member of the royal family.

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#129

Post by flir »

sjducb wrote: post #116
pcrh wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any form of harassment is illegal. See the pics I posted in an edit above; the protestors make their opinions clear to visitors to the clinic, even while being silent.

Do you agree that the UK has banned some silent prayer? Do you think it is right that silent prayer was banned in this case? This whole discussion started because people from other countries didn’t believe that the UK would ban silent prayer.

Pretty sure I could walk through that area while praying and not get arrested. I'd do it by making no outward signs that I was praying. Therefore, prayer is not banned.

Also pretty sure I could get arrested in that area by kneeling on the pavement and meditating, rather than praying. I don't think "but I was meditating" would cut it as a defence, either, because what's banned is "anything that looks like protest, here are some examples".

I think it's the kneeling she got arrested for, which happens to be coded as "prayer" in our culture. In other words, she was arrested for protesting.

Re: UK drops 'spy clause' for scanning encrypted messages, admits not 'feasible'

#130

Post by bananapub »

cimi_ wrote: post #117
bananapub wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the UK has a weird culture of conformism and authoritarianism, and the weirdo part of the Tory party is deeply into that sort of thing, and is in power now. it's not very mysterious.

It's not only the tories: 'Labour pledges to toughen ‘weakened and gutted’ online safety bill' https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jan/01/labour-pl... It's very disheartening to see no opposition to this.

yes, the rightward authoritarian shift of the Labour party is also depressing, just less pressing since they're not the ones orchestrating these bills. I don't really know how Britain will become less like this.
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