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UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

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Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#221

Post by csomar »

makingstuffs wrote: post #75
ajb wrote: post #5

It's a little unclear, but my reading of this is that the power to do it will still be in the law, requiring at most secondary legislation to put into effect (perhaps not even that) if they think they ever have enough leverage over messaging providers, or are willing to spend the political capital. Not a great place to be in really, but better than it actually being deployed.

I’d bet my life we start to see a massive influx of bad press aimed at messaging providers, focusing on how criminals are using their services, over the next few years. When the general sentiment of the average Dave is ‘encryption === bad’ this BS will rear its head again. Seems to have been the standard play for governments of this country for decades now.

Their problem is that they lost a lot of influencing power. Only old people are still watching the TV or trusting the old media. And although they do vote more, their days are numbered.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#222

Post by cookiengineer »

ajb wrote: post #5

It's a little unclear, but my reading of this is that the power to do it will still be in the law, requiring at most secondary legislation to put into effect (perhaps not even that) if they think they ever have enough leverage over messaging providers, or are willing to spend the political capital. Not a great place to be in really, but better than it actually being deployed.

Setting my personal opinion on this law proposal aside, I think that the UK legislation lost its teeth with Brexit. It's just loud barking for the sole purpose of getting CEOs on the table.

Imagine their influence if they would have stayed in the EU, and if France would have joined them (which they usually do when it comes to more governmental oversight of the executive branches of the government).

What scares me a little now is that there was a loss of balance, which is important for any democracy to make progress. And if Big Tech's reaction is always "well then we just pull out of your market(s)" then it's gonna be an empty threat after the third time.

I don't know how the reactions to these events will be like, but most likely we'll see an increase of propaganda press statements on "how bad secure messaging" is, trying to push the narrative into a different direction.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#223

Post by ChoHag »

exodust wrote: post #209
Clamchop wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I suspect they will just keep trying it out over and over until the public gets too exhausted to rally against it anymore.

> until the public gets too exhausted I see this theory pop up around here every few months. Where does it come from? I suspect it's a meme without basis. Can you please name one time in history where the public gets "exhausted", and as a consequence unwanted legislation is passed?

[dead]

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#224

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

monksy wrote: post #141
makingstuffs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d bet my life we start to see a massive influx of bad press aimed at messaging providers, focusing on how criminals are using their services, over the next few years. When the general sentiment of the average Dave is ‘encryption === bad’ this BS will rear its head again. Seems to have been the standard play for governments of this country for decades now.

Great example https://www.wired.com/story/apple-csam-scanning-heat-initiat... Heat initiative is basically non existent on Google. Not much of said about how they're funded or who is apart of it Their website is protectchildrennotabuse.org Has a CEO with experience in running charitable orgs They're explicitly focused on client side scanning and reporting on the iPhone. Honestly if you're reading this archive the web…

heatinitiative.org was registered 2023-08-23... so the paint is barely dry. Their privacy policy also turns up nothing.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#225

Post by Hermitian909 »

Jigsy wrote: post #96
Hermitian909 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just as lazy a take as the UK government though. Many societal problems would be trivial if you could get perfect compliance from the population. You can't, so if you're interested in solving problems you need to be willing to grapple with the world as it is. So far as I can tell online safety has not meaningfully improved since the late 90s - "enforce safety at home" has been the advice for all of that time…

It isn't, though. I'd say it's 50/50. I started using the Internet in 1998, and the only advice my parents gave me was "Don't reveal anything about yourself online." (Thankfully I heeded their warning and still to this day I'm very guarded about disclosing any form of PII.) Whilst admittedly a lot has changed in the last 25 years, I'd say only half the parents will actually try to keep their kids safe online. The oth…

> I'd say only half the parents will actually try to keep their kids safe online

Ok, so is our answer then to abandon safety for the remaining 50% of families? Do we think that's fine, or tragic? I'm going with the latter.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#226

Post by unnouinceput »

I really wish this was a thing. No encryption, or a weak one, or backdoor with government keys that gets leaked (they always leak). Then use those to really spy and watch a firestorm of publicly washed clothes scandals. I really want that. Then, maybe then, the idiots idiots in parliaments around the world will stop this idiocy once and for all.

Imagine nuclear secrets being accessed by every grandma on the planet, that would be laughable. Or the politicians payments to their who...i mean deluxe escorts.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#227

Post by codeptualize »

Clamchop wrote: post #115
codeptualize wrote: post #85

You see this time and time again, some initiative to "just introduce some backdoors, what could go wrong", and then it takes some time for people who understand what it actually means to convince them that it is in fact a really bad idea and it would be a giant disaster.

Unfortunately I suspect they will just keep trying it out over and over until the public gets too exhausted to rally against it anymore.

I’m not too worried about that as I assume it’s not (just) the public but also lobby groups and industries who have an interest in this.

It’s not that hard to explain what would happen and any politician will understand doing something like this would be quite bad for their career.

I do agree that they will keep trying, but the chance of it happening seems slim, as there is just no way to implement this.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#228

Post by networkchad »

iamdelirium wrote: post #192
rollcat wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if you hold a position in the government, all of your communication (including private email, chats, etc) should be subject to public scrutiny. A government official should be defined not as someone who is holding power, but as an elected representative of the people.

Did you even think out this train of thought? Does this cover medical communications, military secrets, private chat between family members, etc?

[dead]

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#229

Post by gorgoiler »

[The law] will only require companies to scan their networks when a technology is developed that is capable of doing so […] experts believe it could be years before any such technology is developed

What do they mean? Image recognition via homomorphic encryption? “Years” feels like an understatement!

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#230

Post by andybak »

staplers wrote: post #204
makingstuffs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d bet my life we start to see a massive influx of bad press aimed at messaging providers, focusing on how criminals are using their services, over the next few years. When the general sentiment of the average Dave is ‘encryption === bad’ this BS will rear its head again. Seems to have been the standard play for governments of this country for decades now.

Bitcoin is an example of this already played out. News cycle perpetuates bitcoin == bad so everyone you know just repeats "scam" and points to criminals. Meanwhile the largest institutions and richest people are investing heavily due to its revolutionary nature. Just look at all the ETFs coming out (Blackrock, Fidelity, etc). Once they are fully setup you'll see the news cycle change sentiment. Rinse, repeat, with an…

Nice try.
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