Chemists develop new way to split water • Hacker News Board

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#51

Post by vore » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 11:31 PM UTC

fakedang wrote: post #19

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #7

Couple of quotes from the OP: "To produce hydrogen, water (H2O) can be converted into hydrogen gas (H2) by means of a series of chemical processes. However, as water molecules are very stable, splitting them into hydrogen and oxygen presents a big challenge to chemists. For it to succeed at all, the water first has to be activated using a catalyst – then it reacts more easily. A team of researchers led by Prof. Armid…

On a tangential note, how do you pronounce the second researcher's name? Zhang as to my knowledge is pronounced with a distinct "Jha" aspirated sound, correct? Back to the article though, from what I understand, the alkenes and arenes merely act as the catalyst for the reactions, so the article calling them the equivalent of hydrogenation reactions seems incorrect. Perhaps, a more equivalent term would be temporary h…

The "zh" is pronounced a little like the "ts" in tsar, and rhymes with "rung".

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#52

Post by opticfluorine » Thu, Sep 07, 2023, 12:09 AM UTC

blacksqr wrote: post #35

kiloDalton wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper isn't about splitting water to yield hydrogen and oxygen gas which would be useful for energy applications. It's about a new way to make radical hydrogen (1 protein plus 1 electron) which is useful for synthesizing some organic compounds. It will be helpful for synthetic chemists and will make it easier to explore hydrogen radical chemistry. It may replace some processes that currently require transition me…

Anything that creates hydrogen radicals could conceivably be used to construct electricity-producing fuel cells. Fuel cells normally radicalize hydrogen by contacting hydrogen with platinum catalysts under extreme conditions, requiring expensive and tricky design. If this new process can do the same in mild conditions with inexpensive organic catalysts under exposure to light, it could lead to more economical fuel ce…

If I'm not mistaken this doesn't appear to be a catalyst. The reaction is driven by the irreversible formation of a strong P=O double bond, and the reagents are consumed. So great for chemical synthesis, but no clear path to fuel cell type reactions.

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#53

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Sep 07, 2023, 12:39 AM UTC

namibj wrote: post #49

dylan604 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less flammable would be Helium. It just so happens that the US is looking to sell the strategic helium reserve. So you just need to find a VC and you can get your backpacker's assistant idea off the ground. hehe as far as helium balloon, it would have to be a balloon of such enormous size to be of any benefit. To launch a couple pounds of payload to 90k feet required a balloon 8' in diameter on the ground.

A kilogram of lift per cubic meter of helium. At sea level; if you let it expand it only goes bigger at altitude, without needing more helium.

Great, so if I have a 25kg sack, a 1 meter sphere being trailed above is only going to make it 24kg. Like I originally stated, a few pounds required an 8' diameter balloon, so 2.5m balloon. That's friggin huge. FYI, at 90k' altitude, the balloon expanded to about 40' before reaching it's burst limit allowing for a return of the payload.

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#54

Post by temp365984365 » Thu, Sep 07, 2023, 2:39 AM UTC

solardev wrote: post #46

dylan604 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would this not be considered a drone? drones are not legal in national parks. can only imagine each state following suit for state parks.

Guess we have to get rid of the props and just tether it to the pack like a balloon. Seriously though, I've often wondered if a weather balloon style lifter tethered to a backpack could help it be lighter. Probably with a less flammable gas, and only in sparsely forested areas.

Lots of fun on windy days!

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#55

Post by marcosdumay » Thu, Sep 07, 2023, 4:16 AM UTC

namibj wrote: post #50

dylan604 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of things that can be done in a lab, but bringing it to the real world is totally different. Nevermind fitting this in the original concept of backpacking

Liquid methane can use normal thermos technology, with the venting fed through a burner to create your water.

Ouch. No, go read the thread again.

You can turn methane into water in theory. And you can technically do it in a lab (even though the easiest way by far to do it uses a lot of water). You can't do it on your backpack.

Re: Chemists develop new way to split water

#56

Post by blacksqr » Thu, Sep 07, 2023, 8:15 PM UTC

opticfluorine wrote: post #52

blacksqr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything that creates hydrogen radicals could conceivably be used to construct electricity-producing fuel cells. Fuel cells normally radicalize hydrogen by contacting hydrogen with platinum catalysts under extreme conditions, requiring expensive and tricky design. If this new process can do the same in mild conditions with inexpensive organic catalysts under exposure to light, it could lead to more economical fuel ce…

If I'm not mistaken this doesn't appear to be a catalyst. The reaction is driven by the irreversible formation of a strong P=O double bond, and the reagents are consumed. So great for chemical synthesis, but no clear path to fuel cell type reactions.

I did not look at the source paper before posting, but the paper makes it clear you're right.

However, the Wikipedia page titled "Phosphine Oxide" states that reduction of the oxide back to its original state is straightforwardly done with cheap reagents.