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UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

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Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#181

Post by aae42 »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #77
glitchc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, by definition if the key is to be used, and to be used more than once, it cannot be kept safe. The key has to go through multiple hands on its way from the senior government official responsible for its safekeeping to the peon assigned to unlock a specific phone at a specific point in time. It could be copied at any one of those points. No amount of technology or cryptography can solve the master key problem. T…

Doesn't this problem exist throughout the tech industry though? Microsoft, Google, Apple etc are keeping the keys that allow you to push updates secret, aren't they?

Also public key certificate authorities

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#182

Post by lo_zamoyski »

chimen wrote: post #177
makingstuffs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d bet my life we start to see a massive influx of bad press aimed at messaging providers, focusing on how criminals are using their services, over the next few years. When the general sentiment of the average Dave is ‘encryption === bad’ this BS will rear its head again. Seems to have been the standard play for governments of this country for decades now.

It's either terrorism or child pornography. In my country (Romania) they use to call football hooligans whenever a protest is being made on a bigger scale just so they can put us all in the same boat and have an excuse to use armed forces and disperse everyone on the basis that the event was not peacefully done. Most of the people I talk to are brainwashed anyway and will happily accept it - just give it time. The di…

> "I have nothing to hide anyway".

People who make that argument should be forced to have high def webcams installed in their bedrooms and bathrooms.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#183

Post by 1letterunixname »

dwaite wrote: post #166
orlp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To revive this, they would have to find an expert to attest that it is technically feasible to have security with a backdoor that government can access, but at the same time is impossible for malicious entities to access. > Ergo, this is technically dead, which is the best form of dead. Except it's not. There exist such cryptographic trapdoor constructions that are perfectly secure, if the government backdoor key i…

> There exist such cryptographic trapdoor constructions that are perfectly secure, if the government backdoor key is kept safe. A big problem with this statement is the term “the government”. If you give the private key to the UK - the US, India and China will want a copy as well. The UK might want to spy on foreign nationals only in the country and only for CSAM, but that doesn’t mean other nations won’t use it for…

The ostensible reasoning is "think of the children" horseshit, but history proves such a powerful capability will be abused for unrestrained spying.

Key escrow for the entire US and world was floated with the Clipper chip (1993-1996). That was strangled in its crib because trusting thousands of people at NSA or GCHQ to just not stalk people is sheer fantasy, just as the Snowden leaks revealed.

iMessage stores the e2ee key in iCloud by default, which effectively makes all of a user's communications decryptable by governments and Apple at any time.

To offer a centralized service with actual privacy without zero knowledge p2p constructions, then it falls victim to the Lavabit problem. If you want security and plausible anonymity across your own devices, not metadata, then use a fork of Signal such as Session. (Signal is irreparably broken by being tied to phone number, which is a universal tracking device. The only people who use Signal are drug dealers and software engineers who don't know any better.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#184

Post by ciwolsey »

ajb wrote: post #5

It's a little unclear, but my reading of this is that the power to do it will still be in the law, requiring at most secondary legislation to put into effect (perhaps not even that) if they think they ever have enough leverage over messaging providers, or are willing to spend the political capital. Not a great place to be in really, but better than it actually being deployed.

Correct, there's been no ammendment to the bill, only promises it's not going to be used.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#185

Post by SpaghettiCthulu »

hackncheese wrote: post #97
anonymous_sorry wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or too busy? In plenty of families both parents have to work hard to make ends meet. Not helped by the fact that children are growing up in a completely different environment to the one their parents remember. Familiarizing myself with TikTok or whatever the kids are into these days would fill me with dread. And the way platforms work means my experience of them would differ dramatically from a child's anyway.

Wish I could upvote this harder lol. Parents really dont have enough time/energy to do this better than people who are trained in software/legislation. Especially if they have more than 2 kids/are single parents

Sounds like we need a cultural shift away from governments involving themselves in parenting to governments ensuring parents have adequate time to parent.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#186

Post by callalex »

_bohm wrote: post #142
pydry wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already deployed M&C Saatchi against it: https://www.techdirt.com/2022/01/19/uk-has-voyeuristic-new-p... https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-u... All about saving the children. From everybody except Prince Andrew, it seems.

Some anonymous entity has been putting up posters in my neighborhood decrying Apple for "allowing" CSAM to be stored on iCloud. Very creepy propaganda campaign.

Those posters are almost certainly plastered up by someone who genuinely believes in the cause. They have been manipulated by corrupt media, but it is a tactical error to assume that a political party is directly paying for such poster campaigns.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#187

Post by callalex »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #76
thereddaikon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People might be more receptive if the UK government had shown any real intention of going after pedos before this. But the number of scandals and coverups indicate they dont. And this is little more than an excuse to make it easier to spy on their subjects.

[flagged]

This is not a useful or constructive statement. I haven’t worked in child protection, is there something you’d like to teach me?

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#188

Post by callalex »

anonymous_sorry wrote: post #79
Jigsy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online safety for kids begins at home. The problem is most parents are just too lazy.

Or too busy? In plenty of families both parents have to work hard to make ends meet. Not helped by the fact that children are growing up in a completely different environment to the one their parents remember. Familiarizing myself with TikTok or whatever the kids are into these days would fill me with dread. And the way platforms work means my experience of them would differ dramatically from a child's anyway.

Modern devices are chock full of features that will work hard for parents while they aren’t even thinking about it. If the can’t be bothered to turn those features on, they shouldn’t be providing the devices in the first place.

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#189

Post by [deleted] »

nojvek wrote: post #178
dfawcus wrote: post #113

The real question is will Signal, WhatsApp, Apples, etc stick to their principals and withdraw UK service if the Bill passes in its current form? Or will they decide to believe that the powers will not be used, and keep their service in operation?

Google pulled from China, but Microsoft bowed down. It’s really upto a few execs at tech giants betting how much money is at risk. For UK and Canada, the state isn’t competent at building a clone of social networks with wide adoption. China can throw insane money, regulation and Human Resources until they get what they want.

[deleted]

Re: UK pulls back from clash with Big Tech over private messaging

#190

Post by heavyset_go »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #182
chimen wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's either terrorism or child pornography. In my country (Romania) they use to call football hooligans whenever a protest is being made on a bigger scale just so they can put us all in the same boat and have an excuse to use armed forces and disperse everyone on the basis that the event was not peacefully done. Most of the people I talk to are brainwashed anyway and will happily accept it - just give it time. The di…

> "I have nothing to hide anyway". People who make that argument should be forced to have high def webcams installed in their bedrooms and bathrooms.

This would make the most sense if the goal was to actually stop child abuse, given that the majority of it happens in the home.
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