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Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

theatlantic.com

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Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#21

Post by dakotasmith »

robrenaud wrote: post #14

> It isn't that anymore, though. Searches are geospecific and social network-dependent. All of which is fine and useful, but that's not what made us love Google's search engine. What makes you love Google is Google giving you the right answer. If you live in the US, do a google search for dmv. Did it pull the one from your state? Do you really want an averaged across all searchers answer? California is probably the s…

Logged in, and in Texas, my search for 'dmv' returns the California DMV.

Then New York.

Then Virginia.

The only results for Texas DMV are two ads at the top of the result listing for sketchy drivers-license.org type "businesses".

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#22

Post by drats »

robrenaud wrote: post #14

> It isn't that anymore, though. Searches are geospecific and social network-dependent. All of which is fine and useful, but that's not what made us love Google's search engine. What makes you love Google is Google giving you the right answer. If you live in the US, do a google search for dmv. Did it pull the one from your state? Do you really want an averaged across all searchers answer? California is probably the s…

That's ok until Google infects a current search with a previous search as it seemed to do for me the other day. In some cases that might help, and although they were in the same domain I was actually looking for something else. Maybe it was an accident, but the result (at position 3 or 4) looked very much like it'd been boosted from my search a minute earlier. Anyone else experience this?

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#23

Post by lkrubner »

drhayes9 wrote: post #17
robrenaud wrote: post #14

> It isn't that anymore, though. Searches are geospecific and social network-dependent. All of which is fine and useful, but that's not what made us love Google's search engine. What makes you love Google is Google giving you the right answer. If you live in the US, do a google search for dmv. Did it pull the one from your state? Do you really want an averaged across all searchers answer? California is probably the s…

A little off-topic, but... Why is this getting down-voted? Is it because you disagree with what this person is saying? I thought down-votes were only for things that didn't contribute to the conversation. It feels like this is getting down-voted because people don't like that Google is doing these things. So, this person is getting down-voted 'cuz of Google? Huh?

Sadly, Paul Graham has endorsed the idea of using the downvote to express disagreement. I personally dislike this use of the downvote, but it does have official sanction. Read this:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#24

Post by tonfa »

stanleydrew wrote: post #12
indiecore wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of course is that what Google actually IS and what people THINK Google is are two completely different things. Google is an ad company, always remember that.

Google is not an ad company. People just like to say that because they think it's clever or surprising or something. Google does not produce ads. They sell ad space. So does Facebook. So does NBC. These are product companies selling ad space.

And without a great product, the ad space wouldn't be very valuable.

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#25

Post by JoshTriplett »

robrenaud wrote: post #14

> It isn't that anymore, though. Searches are geospecific and social network-dependent. All of which is fine and useful, but that's not what made us love Google's search engine. What makes you love Google is Google giving you the right answer. If you live in the US, do a google search for dmv. Did it pull the one from your state? Do you really want an averaged across all searchers answer? California is probably the s…

> If you live in the US, do a google search for dmv.

First of all, no, it doesn't give me the DMV for my state first.

And second, why would I do that when I can easily search for "$statename dmv" and have that search universally do the right thing regardless of location? I don't want hidden inputs to my search based on my location; I want everything that determines the results encapsulated in the query.

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#26

Post by stfu »

What I find fascinating is that with the sheer unlimited amount of data they have the quality of their search engine results have been stagnating for almost 10 years and no substantial break through been seen so far.

The only somewhat "break through" could be seen in local searches - and saving people from adding their zip code, city or street name to their search phrase seems to be not that much impressive either.

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#27

Post by davemel37 »

this is really interesting. What People WANT and what they THINK they want are two different things...How people define and Perceive SEARCH and how they use search are two different things.

I think Google is facing a SELF-DEFEATING reality that as they serve people with better results, they erode the perception of their brand in peoples eyes.

There is clearly an incongruity between what people "THINK" they want from a search engine( and how they perceive Google) versus, what they "REALLY WANT" from a search engine.

Conflicting priorities are always a struggle, but this is an especially interesting one. One side has a DATA supported reality that can't be disputed about what searchers want and what puts bread on the table. On the other side is the more important, but less quantifiable reality that their BRAND is what brings searches back to the site, not the quality of the results, but the perception of GOOGLE and SEARCH being synonymous. This brand value is clearly getting diluted by delivering better results, and could in the long run be their demise.

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#28

Post by bthomas »

robrenaud wrote: post #14

> It isn't that anymore, though. Searches are geospecific and social network-dependent. All of which is fine and useful, but that's not what made us love Google's search engine. What makes you love Google is Google giving you the right answer. If you live in the US, do a google search for dmv. Did it pull the one from your state? Do you really want an averaged across all searchers answer? California is probably the s…

I'd prefer the local DMV be a special result, clearly separate from the universal search. See how "current time" gives you a special result on top - I think they could give similar treatment to a link.

More generally, I think users appreciate when recommendations are transparent. Amazon and netflix are great about this - users get to implicitly choose when they want "recommended for you" or just basic results. I'd like Google search more if it had the same model.

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#29

Post by antoko »

dakotasmith wrote: post #21
robrenaud wrote: post #14

> It isn't that anymore, though. Searches are geospecific and social network-dependent. All of which is fine and useful, but that's not what made us love Google's search engine. What makes you love Google is Google giving you the right answer. If you live in the US, do a google search for dmv. Did it pull the one from your state? Do you really want an averaged across all searchers answer? California is probably the s…

Logged in, and in Texas, my search for 'dmv' returns the California DMV. Then New York. Then Virginia. The only results for Texas DMV are two ads at the top of the result listing for sketchy drivers-license.org type "businesses".

hmm that might be because we don't use the DMV here in Texas the same way - TxDOT and TxDPS are the two agencies you're going to interface with to handle the stuff that California's DMV does.

I've been in TX 5 years now (and owned a car that whole time) and never even knew we had a department of motor vehicles.

Re: Paul Graham, the Commons, and How Google Stopped Being Google

#30

Post by davemel37 »

davemel37 wrote: post #27

this is really interesting. What People WANT and what they THINK they want are two different things...How people define and Perceive SEARCH and how they use search are two different things. I think Google is facing a SELF-DEFEATING reality that as they serve people with better results, they erode the perception of their brand in peoples eyes. There is clearly an incongruity between what people "THINK" they want from…

I almost wonder if SEARCH by definition can't and shouldn't be the end answer, but rather the journey to discovering new things and finding answers.

Google is assuming that when people search, they want answers, but maybe what they really want is to SEARCH for answers.

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