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Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

electrek.co

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Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#51

Post by sbierwagen »

anonporridge wrote: post #17
vinni2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

I've been a bicycle commuter for 20 years. According to Strava I've logged 800 miles so far this year. And when snow is on the ground, I drive.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#52

Post by pgwhalen »

SoftTalker wrote: post #39
gentleman11 wrote: post #10

I can’t even imagine that here where I live. My neighbourhood has sidewalks, which is nice because all the adjacent ones don’t. To go downtown in this little town in winter you have to risk a treacherous steep hill covered in ice and snow that never gets cleared and it’s actually dangerous

Yes, it's amazing how bike advocates view the world as a homogenous place. Where I live it's 90 degrees or higher, and humid in the summer, and can be sub-zero in the winter. It's also quite hilly -- flat and level riding is the exception. I'm not riding a bike any substantial distance in those conditions, regardless of paths or lanes.

I live in a similar climate, and while I don’t know what constitutes a “substantial distance,” I will commute and run errands in either of those extremes.

On those days it’s a little less fun than the other 95% of days, but still feasible. And even I didn’t brave those extremes, 95% of days biking is a lot more than 0%.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#53

Post by Sporktacular »

melling wrote: post #13
vinni2 wrote: post #4

This is hypocrisy Norwegian economy is heavily driven by oil industry. Instead of planning to phase out oil they just makes these ineffective policies. People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

Norway doesn’t decide to phase out oil, consumers do. The world needs 100 million barrels a day. We are at peak coal too. https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-set-to-remain-at...

No they don't. Consumers will go for the cheapest way to get what they want. End oil subsidies and alternatives become more attractive. Tax oil and they come more attractive still. Ban it and they'll look to bikes.

And yes, of course Norway can decide to phase out oil production.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#54

Post by [deleted] »

sbierwagen wrote: post #51
anonporridge wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter isn't a legit excuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

I've been a bicycle commuter for 20 years. According to Strava I've logged 800 miles so far this year. And when snow is on the ground, I drive.

[deleted]

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#55

Post by willio58 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #39
gentleman11 wrote: post #10

I can’t even imagine that here where I live. My neighbourhood has sidewalks, which is nice because all the adjacent ones don’t. To go downtown in this little town in winter you have to risk a treacherous steep hill covered in ice and snow that never gets cleared and it’s actually dangerous

Yes, it's amazing how bike advocates view the world as a homogenous place. Where I live it's 90 degrees or higher, and humid in the summer, and can be sub-zero in the winter. It's also quite hilly -- flat and level riding is the exception. I'm not riding a bike any substantial distance in those conditions, regardless of paths or lanes.

It's a myth that people can't ride bikes in cities that experience exceptionally hot or cold weather. They can, and do, it's just that the cities need to fund infrastructure to make those things more comfortable and enticing.

For heat specifically, you need trees covering sidewalks and bike paths. Also the materials you build sidewalks and structures with contribute to this, and if you can then adding some evaporative cooling via fountains or ponds is a great idea too. For more ideas: https://www.epa.gov/heatislands/heat-island-cooling-strategi...

The heat island effect is real, and it's only going to get much much worse in cities that refuse to work to fix it.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#56

Post by Sporktacular »

vinni2 wrote: post #4

This is hypocrisy Norwegian economy is heavily driven by oil industry. Instead of planning to phase out oil they just makes these ineffective policies. People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

There was a great article a few years back relating oil from modern Norway to opium from the British in China, forcing them to sell a toxic product the British would never allow their own people to consume.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#57

Post by paddim8 »

vinni2 wrote: post #4

This is hypocrisy Norwegian economy is heavily driven by oil industry. Instead of planning to phase out oil they just makes these ineffective policies. People are going to buy big electric cars even with VAT.

Hypocrisy? They're not allowed to improve in other areas just because they sell oil? What in the world are you on about? This is not what hypocrisy is.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#58

Post by willio58 »

vinni2 wrote: post #11
anonporridge wrote: post #2

Fantastic news! EVs already have escape velocity in Norway to replace ICE cars, and incentivizing more walking and cycling not only promotes more efficient modes of short distance travel, but makes the population healthier. Over reliance on cars kills us slowly via lifestyle degradation.

Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference. Instead they should be making public transport more attractive. Walking and biking is not exactly ideal in harsh weather.

> Outside of Oslo the infrastructure is built with car reliance deincentivizing cars and incentivizing walking and bikes won’t make much difference.

To me this reads like "Cars have won, give up on walking and biking in your cities."

That's just not a solution. Just because car lobbyists have successfully ruined nearly all US cities and a good amount of European ones doesn't mean we just sit down and continue to let it happen. I agree public transport is a huge part of the way forward, and I even agree that walking/biking in harsh weather isn't exactly ideal, but we can't let the most simple human ways of existing in cities (walking and biking) go to the wayside just because car companies want us to believe they're bad or unsafe transportation methods. Want to walk in the snow? Put on some boots and wear some layers with a scarf and a hat. Want to walk in the heat? Wear a hat, sunscreen, and a light shirt and pair of shorts. It's not _that_ hard.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#59

Post by willio58 »

vinni2 wrote: post #38
anonporridge wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you watched the video I linked, you would find every point you just made here dismantled.

True the temperature is not the issue. The issue is unmaintained bike paths in most of Norway during winters. I did mention that.

Sounds like a chicken or the egg issue to me. Why are the bike paths unmaintained? Because they aren't used as often as in a country like the Netherlands. But how can we increase biking in Norway if the roads are unmaintained?

The only answer is radically changing the way we view walking in biking in cities. They are the base of all transportation, and we should treat them as the most important mode of transport for that reason. If we do that, maybe Norway will plow their bike paths. Maybe California will drop their obsession with adding "just 1 more lane" to their freeways. Maybe high-speed rail could become a thing in the US as it is in so much of Europe.

Re: Norway rolls back EV incentives while boosting walking and cycling (2022)

#60

Post by pjmlp »

kitkat_new wrote: post #43
vinni2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen this video and in the examples he gives they clear the bike paths. Where I live when it snows it’s just impossible to bike. In heavy snow it’s like biking on the sand. And sometimes when the temperatures fluctuate there is black ice I have to worry about. Some bike paths get salted but not all so it’s not a safe continuous ride at least for my commute.

> And sometimes when the temperatures fluctuate there is black ice I have to worry about. Some bike paths get salted but not all so it’s not a safe continuous ride at least for my commute. there exist winter tyres for bikes, that have spikes - ideal for ice

In Germany they are forbidden.
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