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This page exists only if someone is looking at it

ephemeralp2p.durazo.us

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Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#51

Post by aaron695 »

justaman wrote: post #31
Waterluvian wrote: post #2

I love love love these kinds of experiments. Reminds me of the Early Web. I really wish WebRTC was easier to use. I wish there were some good faith free servers to do the… crap I forget the acronyms… the STUN and TURN stuff and whatnot to negotiate the connections. Ie. Not a proxy, just an operator. Having one I could use freely and comfortably would trivialize a lot of neat projects, particularly fun little multipla…

If you asked me 30 years ago what I thought the web would be in 2023, I would have said something similar to this.

[dead]

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#52

Post by sillysaurusx »

netcraft wrote: post #12
netcraft wrote: post #10

Looks like this was originally submitted to HN back in 2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9531265

another relevant link: https://medium.com/@losvedir/ephemeral-p2p-project-ff07cbd20...

I love that you can see from the graph that the post got bumped off the front page at around 8:38pm.

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#53

Post by Eduard »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #38
echelon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it passes over a central server, does it really count as p2p? If browsers grew p2p capabilities [1], we could begin to bypass centralization and build truly distributed (not just federated) social networks, news systems, and the like. Imagine not having to run "archive.is" against headlines. You just share them - tamperlessly - with others. And the comment graph. You could even begin to boost high-value content wi…

> If it passes over a central server, does it really count as p2p? you made me realize that this website is essentially torrent (without splitting file into chunks)

>> If it passes over a central server, does it really count as p2p?

> you made me realize that this website is essentially torrent

how did you come to your conclusion, given that statement?

With Torrent, content flows between peers directly.

Whereas for this website, content flows between peers with the central server in between.

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#54

Post by losvedir »

Oh, wow. I didn't expect to see this on HN today. This was a toy app I wrote to learn a bit more about Elixir, Phoenix, and Phoenix's concept "channels" (websockets). I submitted it a long time ago to HN.

I wrote a bit more about it on my blog: http://gabe.durazo.us/tech/ephemeral-p2p-project/ (wow, I need to update my blog). Unfortunately, it's not really that p2p, contrary to the name. There's a server running on heroku that manages all the websocket connections and matching. What is p2p is the page content, which lives in the browser, and which gets piped around.

I get my little $7 bill from heroku every month and wonder "is this the time I should finally spend an hour and shut it all down?" But then every once in a while I dig up the old HN submission and follow the link and I see a "Currently Viewing" count of 2 or 3 and I wonder who or what it is and why. If it ever drops to 0 then it wouldn't really be recoverable and I'd shut it down.

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#55

Post by throwitaway156 »

echelon wrote: post #34
MR4D wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA - Your browser retrieved it from the browser of someone currently viewing this page. You're now a part of the network and someone who loads this page in the future may get it from you!

If it passes over a central server, does it really count as p2p? If browsers grew p2p capabilities [1], we could begin to bypass centralization and build truly distributed (not just federated) social networks, news systems, and the like. Imagine not having to run "archive.is" against headlines. You just share them - tamperlessly - with others. And the comment graph. You could even begin to boost high-value content wi…

Ignoring STUN/TURN, WebRTC should be able to do this. there are things like webtorrent.io

All we need is demand. Demand for non-walled garden content. Demand for less monthly subscriptions to be able to run something you already own. Demand for DRM-free content that you can share with your grandma or watch on a seperate device on a flight.

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#56

Post by losvedir »

netcraft wrote: post #11
caseyavila wrote: post #8

This so cool and weird, almost like I'm in a room with other people.

Yes exactly. I've had this page up in a browser for many years, most of the time with only two other people. I have no idea who they are, no way to communicate with them, but feel very connected in a strange way.

OMG, you! I just guffawed in real life at my desk here. I mentioned in another comment here[0] how I've checked off and on through the years and wondered who could possibly be keeping this page open and why. Thanks for re-posting this, it's too funny to hear from one of you guys.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37411714

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#57

Post by netcraft »

losvedir wrote: post #54

Oh, wow. I didn't expect to see this on HN today. This was a toy app I wrote to learn a bit more about Elixir, Phoenix, and Phoenix's concept "channels" (websockets). I submitted it a long time ago to HN. I wrote a bit more about it on my blog: http://gabe.durazo.us/tech/ephemeral-p2p-project/ (wow, I need to update my blog). Unfortunately, it's not really that p2p, contrary to the name. There's a server running on h…

Thank you for footing that bill for so long, this has been a little joy for me for a long time, just seeing how long it can last. Would love to buy you a beer someday.

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#58

Post by 101008 »

MR4D wrote: post #19
101008 wrote: post #14

I understand the idea behind this page (and I really liked it), but the title made me think of more a "philosophical" question... do any webpage exists if nobody visits it? If the page is a static HTML you could say that yes, it exists in the webserver as a file. But what about dynamic webpages. The frontpage of New York Times (I guess it is generated dynamically from a database)... does it exists if no one access NY…

FTA - Your browser retrieved it from the browser of someone currently viewing this page. You're now a part of the network and someone who loads this page in the future may get it from you!

Yes, I read the article, I was asking a different question.

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#59

Post by 101008 »

comprev wrote: post #20
101008 wrote: post #14

I understand the idea behind this page (and I really liked it), but the title made me think of more a "philosophical" question... do any webpage exists if nobody visits it? If the page is a static HTML you could say that yes, it exists in the webserver as a file. But what about dynamic webpages. The frontpage of New York Times (I guess it is generated dynamically from a database)... does it exists if no one access NY…

A building does not exist until the materials sitting at the site are assembled. Same principle applies to dynamic webpages.

But what if the materials are assembled "automatically" every time someone tries to enter the building :D

Re: This page exists only if someone is looking at it

#60

Post by TheJoeMan »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #4

Fascinating experiment in ephemerality. If a page is popular, more people will see/share it amongst themselves... but as soon as it loses interest... the content is gone. Also a high potential for content to be gone before it can be indexed.

I think it would make a fascinating tik-tok clone where you don’t have to pay storage fees! Except you could charge users to help them seed if they don’t want to leave their phone app running until they go viral.
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