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Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

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Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kill switches are now required for cars produced after 2026. https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/biden-infrastructure-bil... It is for your safety. ;)

Of course, that it won't be disabled by crooks and used for crimes like kidnapping people.

I am not worried about crooks disabling my car. I’m worried about the government doing it.

We need to stop being fearful of each other and start becoming fearful of our overlords.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#552

The biggest problem I have is tracking that the government has access to. We're in a situation where the government knows everywhere your phone has been, and everywhere your car has been. I doubt we're far from the gov't being able to de-activate your car at will also. I would like to have privacy from corporations, but I really wish we'd keep the focus on privacy from our governments, since they have such ultimate p…

The problem is that the private companies tracking you can be compelled (if they don't voluntarily) give up your tracking data to the government. Stopping government tracking starts with stopping private industry tracking, as the latter is happy to give it away/sell the data or can be forced to by law.

I agree with your premise, but disagree with your conclusion.

Yes, of course data that goes to the corporations gets scooped up by the government.

But we need to stay laser focused on the main goal of maintaining privacy from our government, which may include efforts at privacy from corporations.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#553

This article doesn't go into any benefits to the driver/user, if available. With all the cameras and microphones in cars these days they can at least send the insurance companies all the data when an accident occurred. Were you on the phone? Driving the speed limit? Have your seat belt on? Braking hard to avoid (or cause) an accident? Heck, give me a monthly riding report with information such as how fast I accelerat…

that sounds like a nightmare to me and should have to be opted into, I would never purchase a car with that. I'll just get a motorcycle and risk my life.

Nightmare? It's a black box. It can save your bacon if you're falsely accused. Cars have a lot of sensors these days and if those two cars get into an accident you can re-create the entire accident.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#554
post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto margins are ridiculously thin, and if a manufacturer can trim 17 cents off a car’s manufacturing cost by removing a button, they usually will.

Your post under says margins of 6%? 17 cents over a 6% margin on a $30,000+ purchase would be like McDonalds charging for extra salt on their fries. I’d guess it’s an ease of design and manufacturing decision when you can eliminate so many buttons so easily.

> would be like McDonalds charging for extra salt on their fries.

Aren't they? I had a vague impression it happened. And of course, some McDonalds' locations charge you something absurd for an extra ketchup packet.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#555
post #387

A lot of people are making comments about defeating the telemetry, but it's not just about selling ads this time. This is about actual surveillance and (eventually) control, and the governments of the world will make this a requirement, and make circumvention of it as illegal as copyright infringement. In the US, the government will throw up it's hands and say it's not us; it's the "free" market, and this must be wha…

just wait until insurance companies demand access to your telemetry or they triple your rates.

I had to go this route already. As a new driver, my rates were quite high - and the best option for lowering that was letting them track my driving through an app on my phone.

I don't particularly like it, but it's something I'll just have to live with.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#556

Certain cars let you physically disable this. For example, the Tacoma has a "Data Communication Module" (DCM) that performs all of this and has a cell radio to phone home. There's a fuse in the fusebox you can pull to prevent the DCM from getting any power. Only side effect is the in-cabin microphone stops working and you can reconnect the fuse at any time. It's as if the engineering team didn't want to develop a spy…

FWIW, getting to that fuse is a massive, massive pain in the ass on some of their newer cars like the 2023 corolla. It's basically not possible. The alternative requires taking off the dash and manually pulling out some wires.

In the process you may lose some functionality like some speakers, the radio, wireless android auto, microphone, etc.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#557

Note that this is all based on this source material. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categor... I haven't dug too much into the methodology, but it seems like it's done based on privacy policies rather than actually looking into the car telemetry traffic. It's also written in a very caaual and sensationalist "omagad" tone that doesn't serve well the seriousness of the topic or findings

Thanks. I read the original article and conspicuously absent is the actual mechanism of the data collection that is occurring here. Some of the claims seem barely believable. Is data exfiltrated from the phone, via some kind of data access loophole in Android Auto / Car Play? Are the microphones in vehicles actively listening to conversations and shipping them off for analysis? Or is this all purely hypothetical (i.e…

> Are the microphones in vehicles actively listening to conversations and shipping them off for analysis? Or is this all purely hypothetical (i.e., they say they have the right to use it, so clearly they must be trying to acquire it...)?

All data that they can acquire will be acquired because data can be sold, leading to higher quarterly profits. There are almost no other considerations.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#558
post #371

Certain cars let you physically disable this. For example, the Tacoma has a "Data Communication Module" (DCM) that performs all of this and has a cell radio to phone home. There's a fuse in the fusebox you can pull to prevent the DCM from getting any power. Only side effect is the in-cabin microphone stops working and you can reconnect the fuse at any time. It's as if the engineering team didn't want to develop a spy…

lol - if they were only that altruistic. Toyota doesn't make the tech, they buy modules from suppliers and integrate the tech. Better hope someone doesn't come out with a fancy super module that has everything integrated because there will be no disabling it as soon as that happens :/ Don't forget Toyota was the manufacturer that was going to charge a monthly subscription just for the key fob (!) to work until they g…

> Better hope someone doesn't come out with a fancy super module that has everything integrated because there will be no disabling it as soon as that happens

I was just thinking about how to find and disable all the microphones in a car and realized that, with software, any speaker can be used as a microphone, so the logical conclusion is that you'd have to disable all the speakers as well.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the occasional automated drive into stationary objects. Guess that's partly why they have the "best in class safety tech".

You don’t have to enable self driving.

As much as they charge for it, I would want to use it if I had a Tesla. But since I have severe trust issues with Tesla, I would never* buy an electric car from them anyway. * at least for the next 5 years, probably longer. I'm just glad I live far away from the places self-driving cars are common, for now.
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