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Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

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Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#531

Post by Night_Thastus »

I honestly don't get the hate for modern cars that some people have.

I recently got a 2023 Corolla, and it's fantastic:

* Android Auto gives me a great GPS to navigate anywhere, anytime. It watches out for traffic, accidents, speed traps, etc. and keeps me informed and on the fastest route

* I can have my phone's whole music library to listen to instead of fiddling with another copy on a USB stick that I'd have to keep in sync

* Automatic headlights and brights

* Automatic climate control (no more adjusting!)

* Amazing MPG (I can get 48 on the highway)

* Tire pressure sensors

* Automatic parking brake so I don't accidentally ruin the transmission

* Automatic lane centering and adaptive cruise makes hour long drives effortless. It's even great in the city.

* All the safety features like brake assist, pedestrian detection, etc. It hasn't saved me from an accident yet, and hopefully won't need to - but it's great to know that it's there

I basically never need to touch the screen except when initially setting up my route. Everything else is on the wheel or sticks.

Seriously. Cars have never been better.

Yes, if you're an enthusiast who wants a fun, sporty and unique car you're eating expensive scraps at the moment. But for MOST people, it's never been better.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#532

Post by rootusrootus »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #395
Kirby64 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. Gauges are almost all driven electrically these days and not directly connected to a speed readout mechanically. If you have a problem with the gauge cluster, it's very common to have gauges malfunction. Sometimes they read incorrectly. Sometimes they read 0. If it's one of those multifunction displays, you could just have that display "crash" too.

There is still going to be significantly better isolation than if it is all behind one pane of glass. If the radio is on the fritz, the hard-wired speedometer and windshield wipers should still be able to operate and accept commands.

A modern digital cluster is pretty much all operated off one little computer. Nobody's used hard wired speedometers in probably 20 years or more. And I can tell you that even back when we did have such things, it wasn't unheard of for the cluster to freak out. Had a ground wire crack on my '95 car and the gauges all started making very random readings. Some even looked plausible at first glance, which meant it took two trips to the dealer before they realized it was an electrical problem and not an actual malfunctioning cooling system.

In the case of the Tesla, BTW, the infotainment is 100% separate from the computer that controls the car. E.g. you loose the turn signal sounds, but the signals themselves work, etc. AP will continue to function, but you can't turn it on without the infotainment screen running. You can reboot the infotainment as you're driving down the street without it affecting your control of the car.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#533

Post by rootusrootus »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #477
gonehome wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet most people look at the tactile buttons when adjusting them, to see the temperature, fanspeed, etc. and that the difference between this and swiping on the tesla display isn't an important difference.

I bet they don't. Muscle memory is a thing. Do you look down at your blinker lever to change it? How about your wipers? If you have controls on your steering wheel, do you look at those to press them? I bet not.

I'd take that bet. The only controls I use muscle memory for are some of the steering wheel buttons (not all, e.g. I still have to look for the cruise control on/off for my F250) and the stalks. And even then, when I switch between cars I sometimes have to glance to remind myself which functionality the right stalk has. For climate controls and such, I pretty much always glance. The only knob I can reliably hit without a glance is the volume.

Maybe I've just been driving so long that the variety of cars has impeded my ability to develop muscle memory. But I doubt it.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#534

Post by bob1029 »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #108
bob1029 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always going to be an option if you can afford it.

“Always” is a long time. Cars from the 1920s are on the road today, but do you want that to be your daily driver? Do you care about safety or the safety of your passengers? This kind of backwards thinking does not scale to everyone who wants privacy in their car. And it does not scale into the long-term future of driving.

> Do you care about safety or the safety of your passengers?

One could make an argument that modern vehicles have gone way too far in the "protect occupants at all costs" direction at the expense of safety for literally everyone else.

E.g. Very thick A-pillars are a major cause of pedestrians and cyclist getting hit. "I literally didn't see them :(" So many cases. All of this nonsense so that the passengers can have 40+ airbags cushion their special asses - and only if they screw up. All of that lack of visibility and tons of extra mass just in case. Pedestrians and cyclists almost universally suffer more for every extra safety measure added for the occupants of vehicles.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#535

Post by _ea1k »

SEJeff wrote: post #498
tristor wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate them so much. Otherwise great cars are completely ruined by touchscreens. What was wrong with tactile knobs you could operate one handed without looking? You’re driving for fuck’s sake. It’s why things like the GR Corolla are nearly miraculous in 2023, it even comes stick shift only.

Fwiw, teslas support pretty much everything via voice. You just press the right button on the wheel and say what you want it to do. I’m not disagreeing with your dislike for touch screens, but Tesla can do literally almost everything hands free using voice if that’s an option.

I'm mostly fine with the Tesla approach. The few tactile controls are basically enough for me, especially with the last few updates effectively adding more.

However, the voice controls have been basically useless for me. I wouldn't want to depend on them.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#537

Post by PrimeMcFly »

KMag wrote: post #123
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My insurance company has a phone app that collects the same info - speed, deaccelation (gyroscopes), etc. the app is optional but qualifies you for a discount after 3 months of app history, if your driving pattern meets their standards. They told me they do not impose rate increases based on the app’s reporting, only discounts. I did not install it but the point is: You don’t need a car device anymore.

My insurance company's app sometimes detects commuter train rides as car trips. As far as I can tell, there's no way to tell it "No, I'm not actually driving now".

Uninstall the app?

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#538

Post by [deleted] »

stork19 wrote: post #443
SoftTalker wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automatics are more fuel efficient, and govenment keeps raising the efficiency requirements. Automatics do this by having a lot of gears and changing up very aggressively. It would suck to drive a 7 or 9 speed manual (maybe truck drivers feel differently; I think 5 is optimal for a car) but automatics can manage it and squeeeze out another tenth of an MPG. I love manual transmissions and will never buy an automatic u…

Noooo. Manuals are on average much more efficient. I drive a 1st generation Honda Insight, and the manual version gets ~10 mpg more than the automatic.

[deleted]

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#539

Post by rootusrootus »

briffle wrote: post #511
stork19 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noooo. Manuals are on average much more efficient. I drive a 1st generation Honda Insight, and the manual version gets ~10 mpg more than the automatic.

Modern pickups have 8-10 speed transmissions. They do a better job of keeping you in the power band. In addtion, no heavy duty pickup comes with a manual anymore, but the ones that did years ago, de-tuned the engines in the manuals, so people didn't burn up the clutch. Modern Diesel Heavy Duty pickups only put their full 1000 ft/lbs to the wheels in 3rd gear or higher, something they can't enforce in a manual. Also,…

> Modern pickups have 8-10 speed transmissions. They do a better job of keeping you in the power band.

This is so true. As someone who owns a fairly modern truck (2019 F250) that missed the good transmission by a single year. My truck would dearly love to have at least one more gear between 2nd and 3rd when I'm going up the mountain. I end up having to choose between trying to keep my inertia high (tough with corners) or give up and let it drop down to 35-40 so that 2nd gear isn't trying to tear the engine off the mounts.

I may end up putting in shorter differential gears to work around that. Don't really want to fork out for a new truck.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#540

Post by Engineering-MD »

scott_w wrote: post #528
Engineering-MD wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s illegal to hold not touch. It is specifically legal to use your phone (in a safe manner) in say a wind screen mount [0]. [0] https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

That’s why I mentioned hands free.

My clarification was in regards to the word touch, as it has very different implications to hold.
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